Author Topic: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel, fixed.  (Read 13464 times)

Reply #15November 30, 2011, 09:46:01 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2011, 09:46:01 pm »
What would happen if you plugged up the hole in the middle of the shaft # 108?  I zoned out that this is not a 109 pump.  Sorry on that.  My thought on plugging is that then it will not be a source of any problems.  It would disable the emissions part and perhaps act like a 109 pump and then it would run correctly. 

Did you replace the O rings on this shaft?  Use lube on install to keep them from breaking or cracking?


Reply #16December 01, 2011, 09:24:16 am

vanbcguy

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2011, 09:24:16 am »
I believe it's job is to provide extra advance under hard acceleration by increasing the pressure supplied to the timing piston when the hole is covered up - if it is plugged then you would have extra advance at all times.  Not sure if that is what you want or not, but that's what you'd get.  It would make for a noisier engine at cruising speed at the very least.

I'm not sure I understand what the goal is though?
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #17December 01, 2011, 11:22:03 am

rabbitman

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2011, 11:22:03 am »
I believe it's job is to provide extra advance under hard acceleration by increasing the pressure supplied to the timing piston when the hole is covered up - if it is plugged then you would have extra advance at all times.  Not sure if that is what you want or not, but that's what you'd get.  It would make for a noisier engine at cruising speed at the very least.

I'm not sure I understand what the goal is though?

I just don't know what to set the internal pressure at with that hole messing things up. If I disabled that feature I would just time it like a normal pump. Maybe that's why this engine is supposed to have 54hp instead of 52 like my rabbit ;D.
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #18December 01, 2011, 12:16:48 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2011, 12:16:48 pm »
I would be looking at setting the pump at 40 lbs first.  If you can even get it there.  If at 40 lbs at idle it still has some running issues then try for 43 at idle.  Those are the only numbers I have seen other than those of us that finally throw a gauge on the pump and find that we are all running at 20 because of wear and maybe PO's dinking with it previously.

If the mechanism seems to function as a secondary method for the pressure to get to the other side of the timing advance it is only going to be working when you are under a higher RPM than the idle.  Hence I say set it up and try it out.  If you can't get the pressure past 35 #s then I would still be looking for a problem internally.  Or thowing about 4 ounces of wax into a gallon of diesel, letting it warm up and disolve, or heat it to make that happen and then run it off the isolated gallon and see with the wax addition what the pressure might be.  If it goes up than you know you have a worn out pump because the thicker fuel is taking up some of the wear factor.  I would pull as much fuel out of the pump and inject waxed fuel into it so that dilution is minimal.

If thicker fuel is what you need all the time then adding oil to the diesel is the only out where it is getting cold right now.  You don't need gelled fuel in the filter, lines or tank ever.  If you can get your hands on that 60W oil aircraft use that is the ticket.

Good luck

Reply #19December 02, 2011, 07:15:24 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2011, 07:15:24 pm »
I believe it's job is to provide extra advance under hard acceleration by increasing the pressure supplied to the timing piston when the hole is covered up - if it is plugged then you would have extra advance at all times.  Not sure if that is what you want or not, but that's what you'd get.  It would make for a noisier engine at cruising speed at the very least.

I'm not sure I understand what the goal is though?

I just don't know what to set the internal pressure at with that hole messing things up. If I disabled that feature I would just time it like a normal pump. Maybe that's why this engine is supposed to have 54hp instead of 52 like my rabbit ;D.

The hole is supposed to be there though?  Why would it mess up your internal pressure setting?  Am I missing something and you're trying to use a particularly unusual pump?

Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #20December 02, 2011, 08:02:13 pm

rabbitman

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2011, 08:02:13 pm »
The hole is supposed to be there though?  Why would it mess up your internal pressure setting?  Am I missing something and you're trying to use a particularly unusual pump?

Yeah this pump is different than what us North Americans got(afaik).

The hole leaks pressure from inside the pump body back to the vane/lift pump so instead of forcing the fuel through the OUT bolt it just recirculates it and so doesn't build any higher pressure until the hole is plugged, I don't know at what pressure or throttle position the hole would be plugged or unplugged by the sleeve so it's a guessing game so far.

I did get it to run perfect though so I'll leave it alone for now. I've driven it around and (other than the horrible misalignment and resulting wandering) it is a pleasure to drive, fast response to the go pedal, super tight shifter and VERY FEW RATTLES.

Another major problem is it starts hard. This morning it was 22F out and it would hardly fire, I plugged it in and tried throughout thre day with no success so I bought a new battery and it cranked waaaaay faster but still wouldn't start until probably 4 hours after being plugged in then it fired up and ran perfect.

The heater blows HOT air too, it will be a welcome change from the rabbits heater............
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #21December 02, 2011, 08:26:46 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2011, 08:26:46 pm »
Sounds like you have the pump problem solved and now you need to source out the glow plug functions.  Do they work, how long and do they shut off like they should.  Be plenty of discussions here on those topics so start searching. 

Reply #22December 03, 2011, 10:42:43 am

vanbcguy

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2011, 10:42:43 am »
See I was pretty sure our pumps had that feature too - I don't think it bleeds ALL pressure, just some.  The specific point that it kicks in can be changed by adjusting the governor shaft (behind the pump sprocket).

Either way, glad you have it running now!! :)  Glowplugs next most likely...
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #23December 03, 2011, 11:38:28 am

burn_your_money

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 11:38:28 am »
The hole is supposed to be there though?  Why would it mess up your internal pressure setting?  Am I missing something and you're trying to use a particularly unusual pump?

Yeah this pump is different than what us North Americans got(afaik).

It's actually a feature on all the "newer" pumps (pre-TDI of course). I can't say exactly when it started but I think it was around the time of the fast idle, which I think was 87ish.
Tyler

Reply #24December 03, 2011, 01:39:28 pm

rabbitman

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2011, 01:39:28 pm »
It's actually a feature on all the "newer" pumps (pre-TDI of course). I can't say exactly when it started but I think it was around the time of the fast idle, which I think was 87ish.

Thanks Tyler, that makes sense.

As for the GP's, they were new duraterms when I put the engine together maybe 5 miles and lots of failed starts ago.

Tried starting it today at 23F (plenty warm for my rabbit fire up), I glowed the plugs until I heard the relay shut off then glowed 'em again until the light went out then I cranked away. It almost started, it cranked faster and faster like it was trying and then it just gave up, I think these diesels can flood if they don't start quick enough.

One cylinder definitely fires harder than the rest. I'll make sure the GP's are good.
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #25December 03, 2011, 02:04:44 pm

rabbitman

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2011, 02:04:44 pm »
GP's are good, they're wired Vince style so I can touch 'em one at a time to the battery and get a big spark. Also checked to make sure they're getting power so I see no reason for it to not start...........other than low compression which I've not checked.

Just tried again and it almost started, blows black smoke and sounds like it's gonna and then just stops firing.

When I fired the GP's this last time I heard a dull thud in the exhaust system, and while I'm cranking I hear it every now and then. So I think it's pushing lots of fuel right through the engine.

The cold start doesn't really make a difference pulled or not.
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #26December 03, 2011, 02:59:23 pm

burn_your_money

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2011, 02:59:23 pm »
I wouldn't call it flooding but rather cold fuel cooling the combustion chamber.
Tyler

Reply #27December 03, 2011, 03:09:44 pm

rabbitman

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2011, 03:09:44 pm »
Got it to start finally, plugged it in for two hours and did a pre-glow and it fired up like nothin' was wrong.......runs perfect too.
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #28December 03, 2011, 07:05:53 pm

burn_your_money

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2011, 07:05:53 pm »
I wonder if it was an air-in-fuel issue
Tyler

Reply #29December 03, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: It suddenly stopped sucking fuel
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2011, 07:13:28 pm »
You mean in the lines just before the injectors?  Some injectors getting the fuel they needed but not all?  Hope it continues to start once it cools down over a cold night.  Keep us posted.