No hot start (IDI)

[ORCoaster]

The two flat sided round plug on the engine side of the IP is the pressure regulator.  Unless you have a gauge on the IP don't fool with it.  Trust us.  Just do a search here for pressure regulator and see what some have done by messing with it.  Me included here. 

If you have a gauge on it then at Idle you should be at somewhere between 38-43 depending on how good your pump is.  If off then tap on the pressure regulator pin in the center of the bolt you describe.  Needs only small taps and if you go to far you remove it and start over.  After you drive the pins and spring out the bottom and reassemble it.

[belchfire]

I'm running straight diesel during the problem times. I only use SVO when it's warmed up and going down the road. Actually had to use either to get home once. Buy for now, back in a week.

[Toby]

Are you running any WVO on the trips where you are having trouble? It may be that your injector tips and GPs are covered with un or semi burned glycerine thereby contributing to your hot start problems.

[burn_your_money]

Once again, if the glow plugs were bad then cold starting would suffer. It fires up in the morning and when it's time to leave work, just don't stop along the way.

You're missing my point. The time that glowplugs are on is determined by the temperature of the engine. When the engine is cold the glow plugs are on for a long time. When the engine is warm but not up to operating temperature the glowplug cycle is reduced. This is fine for an engine in good health, but once you start getting into pump and/or engine problems increasing the time that the glowplugs are on serves as a nice bandaid.

If your problem is a compression issue caused by sticking rings then you should be rebuilding the engine before the stuck rings wear the engine beyond rebuildable limits, assuming replacement engines are hard to find in your area.

[ORCoaster]

I have to agree that this sounds an awful lot like glow plugs that are not getting hot enough.  It doesn't sound like they have that trouble when first needed and the engine is cold.  Just when it is slightly warm but not to warm to start without them.  Very gray area, I think my car will do the same if I only went a few miles and shut it off.  But when I do my GP's seem to stay on the same amount of time as initial start.  I listen for the clunk of the Ford relay to tell me when they are done. 

So to me this is an issue of clean the plugs or swap the relay or temp sensor out.  Or as some have suggested hard wire it to a new system that you have total control of.  Then it wouldn't matter if the engine had a little heat on it.  You would still hold the button the same length of time as you did initially and all should be fine.

[Patrick]

Yup. I still think it's a temp sensor that's not running the glow plugs long enough when the engine is partially warm. Humour us. Next time it won't start run a hot wire from the battery to the glow plugs and see if it will start.

[damac]

wvo is nasty stuff.  I had a bad experience with that stuff in my jetta and old f250.  i have to wonder if it broke crap free in the tanks so i was initially having to change filters.

i also would work the engine on diesel before shutting everything off.

it gummed the hell out of both pumps and luckily i was able to get them back by getting atf inside them to sit for a day, then get running, sit for another day and change the filters again.

the truck recovered and i never broke the pump open.

the jettas pump i did break down due to fuel running away from the pump, and i was going to rebuild another pump and reseal anyway.  but it also was a little brat to start compared to normal.

when i finally got inside the pump everything was clean except for the vane wheel at the front of the pump.  i could barely bude it with a screwdriver before removing those parts.  and when i did i found the crusty brown stuff all over those areas.

once started i cannot say that i noticed any issues running that pump like that for a few weeks though?  still had pulling power up top, etc.

[Toby]

Yup. I still think it's a temp sensor that's not running the glow plugs long enough when the engine is partially warm. Humour us. Next time it won't start run a hot wire from the battery to the glow plugs and see if it will start.

OR just cycle the GPs by turning the key off and then on again as many times as you like. No need to even get out of the car.

[belchfire]

I'm back. Some interesting theorys but I'm having a hard time with the GP one. This is not a cold start issue. My house is at the top of a 700' climb and the fan kicks in when I get there. I was under the impression that the temp sensor would not let the relay work at that temp as the engine was warm enough. I will, just to humor you guys, hot wire the glow plugs after I shut it down when I get home tomarrow.
The charge pump relief valve is a complete cartridge and can be removed and installed without ruining some sort of adjustment, right?  I've got a Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner thar I could soak it in and see if it it was gummed up. Lord knows that I am familiar with the gum issue. You can't get that stuff off with a jack hammer. It makes sense that the charge pump vanes could be sticky but then we go back to the no cold start problems. I'll try the cold water trick on the pump too. Nothing to loose.

[burn_your_money]

Yes the pressure regulator comes out as a unit. You have access to the bottom of the piston once it is out. You can use a small screwdriver or pick to push on it to see if it is free, no need to take it apart.

It might be easier to just unplug the temp sensors rather than hot wiring the glowplugs. You only need to unplug one but I forget which is which and for this test you don't need a temp gauge anyways.

[ORCoaster]

Belchfire,  What we are thinking on the glowplugs is more of a secondary problem in the system.  Yes the engine is screaming hot, your fan is coming on for crying out loud. Do you have trouble starting it then?  I didn't think that was the problem.  More like when you don't get it that hot and the sensor or relay is actually the trouble not so much the plugs.

[burn_your_money]

Cranking speed is acceptable. I have a Bosch rebuilt starter and the batt cables go directly to it. Just for fun, I put the charger on 200 amp boost which cranked it somewhat faster and it eventually fired.

I just re-read your post. I think you should do a voltage drop test on the system when the engine is hot.

[belchfire]

Glow plug voltage is about 10v. Not great but I have fast plugs and a slow relay so they're plenty hot. Doesn't start. Poured cold water (45*) over the pump and with the advance pulled out it fired right up. It seemed to turn over a little quicker too. Forgot to mention that it has erratic idle patterns. sometimes normal & sometimes fast. Re-did the injectors and found 2 weak ones. BTW NAPA bumped the price of the shields from $1.09 to $4.00 ea so I won't get them there any more. It seemed to run a little better until this problem surfaced. It came on rather suddenly which is somewhat baffling. There's a good possibility that there was some charge pump cavitation when I had a lot of filter clogging. My SVO tank is fabricated from new stainless steel and it has a teflon line to the filter. Most of the clogging was from waxing that more heat solved. Do you think that the head could be affected too? Prothe (E-Bay) has a pump gasket rebuild kit and for an additional $75 has a new charge pump and head. Since I will be getting some new pistons from him anyway, maybe I should make this a package deal. I had the pump re-built about 20K ago so it's essentially a New pump. I tore apart an old one and it isn't as bad as it might seem. Meanwhile, I'm carrying a galon of water in case I have to stop along the way.

[81 vw pu]

Glow plug voltage is about 10v. Not great but I have fast plugs and a slow relay so they're plenty hot. Doesn't start. Poured cold water (45*) over the pump and with the advance pulled out it fired right up. It seemed to turn over a little quicker too. Forgot to mention that it has erratic idle patterns. sometimes normal & sometimes fast. Re-did the injectors and found 2 weak ones. BTW NAPA bumped the price of the shields from $1.09 to $4.00 ea so I won't get them there any more. It seemed to run a little better until this problem surfaced. It came on rather suddenly which is somewhat baffling. There's a good possibility that there was some charge pump cavitation when I had a lot of filter clogging. My SVO tank is fabricated from new stainless steel and it has a teflon line to the filter. Most of the clogging was from waxing that more heat solved. Do you think that the head could be affected too? Prothe (E-Bay) has a pump gasket rebuild kit and for an additional $75 has a new charge pump and head. Since I will be getting some new pistons from him anyway, maybe I should make this a package deal. I had the pump re-built about 20K ago so it's essentially a New pump. I tore apart an old one and it isn't as bad as it might seem. Meanwhile, I'm carrying a galon of water in case I have to stop along the way.

Glad to here the cold water trick helped to get it started, and I also carried water around untill I found another pump for my F-350 IDI.

[theman53]

The prothe pump head will not run any better, if it runs at all. Do not make it a package deal. Who rebuilt this pump when you had it done? If it was anyone but prothe then I would take it back to them and show them what is going on.