any easy way to rotate untimed engine w/out hitting valves?

[motomike33y]

I do dumb things periodically so suffice it to say that took the timing belt off w/out having engine at tdc.  thought I'd got things together w/in a couple teeth, but engine(when turned over by hand)  comes to a stop after about 1/4 turn--same thing happens going backwards.  is there any magic point that I can set the cam that will allow me to freely rotate the engine?  or must I somehow work the engine, then the cam, etc. until I can locate tdc, then set the cam?  engine had been running/turning over before my dismantling of timing, so I think it is just a timing issue

[burn_your_money]

I've done that before and I removed the camshaft

[rabbitman]

There's nowhere that will not have valve/piston interference so you'll have to either remove the cam or, like you said, turn them part way one at a time until it's good.

[Toby]

All you have to do is put the crank anywhere but TDC on any hole. Then put the cam where it would be at TDC and instal the lock plate. Then slowly rotate the crank to TDC on 1 & 4. If it contacts a valve on 2 or 3, rotate it the other way until TDC. Install the belt and drive away happy.

[motomike33y]

took the dependable way and removed the camshaft.  turned the engine over to tdc and reinstalled cam, timing belt, etc.  turned it all the way around w/out hitting anything so I'm a step closer.  should get it running this weekend

[Toby]

How is that more "dependable"?

[motomike33y]

wanted to be sure that no gremlins had done anything and that engine could rotate w/out hitting anything. 

[Toby]

So you believe in magic? If no piston is at TDC it is impossible for a valve to hit a piston. Once the cam is set to  its position for TDC on 1 and 4 they can not make contact with a valve. Gently rolling the motor won't bend a valve IF 2 or 3 come up and contact one. If you roll it the right direction nothing can make contact.

[motomike33y]

I realize that things don't happen without a cause, but I've had this vehicle and worked on the engine enough times to want to be cautious, because sometimes I do things that I hadn't realized would have an effect.

[rabbitman]

Hey Toby, maybe you should read his post and realize that his initial plan was to get TDC without pistons touching valves. Who cares what method he uses, yes your method would've worked fine and been faster BUT the end result is the same so there's no use havin' a fit over it just cause he picked someone elses method.........unless you want him to start over and do it your way.......

[Toby]

You miss the point. I am not jamming on him. The proper way takes 30 seconds and does not require ANY dis-assembly which is always better. He got it done but anyone else reading the thread needs to know how simple it is to do it correctly.

[BigVWman]

For someone searching how to do it, maybe the foolproof way IS to remove the cam.some folks do have a tough time with the relationships and why risk having someone screw something up doing what they may not fully comprehend! Heck even those that do grasp what your trying to explain would pull the cam just to keep too many beers front causing calamity!

[R.O.R-2.0]

You miss the point. I am not jamming on him. The proper way takes 30 seconds and does not require ANY dis-assembly which is always better. He got it done but anyone else reading the thread needs to know how simple it is to do it correctly.

toby, you must remember that there are some pretty stupid people out there working on their own cars, please dont treat all of them like they are smart. you gotta break things down, and give a few different options, because some people can F*** up and burn ice cubes..

there are tons of Murphys out there (people who live by murphys law) and they always manage some way to mess something up..

if he felt like taking his engine apart to a million pieces to time it, soo be it, its his engine. who cars how long it takes him? just be happy that you and i can do it in 10% of the time it takes normal people..

it used to get to me when people chose to do things other than the preferred method, but now it just makes me laugh, because i know that i can do things the right way, in a shorter time period than the next guy who is trying to do things differently, or maybe even the "EASIER" appearing way..

either way, its his engine to break. let him break it

breaking something is the easiest way to learn a lesson and have it really sink in deep.  

[somolovitch3]

Why remove the cam?

Remove/loosen the caps, yes, but remove?

Let the vales come up to the seats, aline what needs to be alined, tighten up the cam caps and finish setting the timing.

[Toby]

The issue is that EVERY time you take something apart you are asking for trouble. Especially on old stuff. In addition to wasting time you introduce one more level of risk. Jason's Rule: Never take anything apart that you do not have to.

Charles "Boss Ket" Kettering, the inventor of the self starter, Freon, the incubator for premature babies, ethyl (leaded) gasoline, and founder of DELCO, was fond of saying, that "Parts that could be safely left out cost nothing and caused few service problems." The same thing applies to taking old stuff apart. If you do not F with it you won't break it. Words to live by.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Kettering