Diesel Troubles, can't start (86 td jetta)

[peacedub]

hi everyone, name is MISHA im new here but not new to diesels.... i have owned this jetta for almost 3 years. the first year i rebuilt the engine - after which it sat in a few garages in the 99% finished phase. 



now the other day i finally got the chance to start working on it again. at this point it ran... really rough - would die when fully warmed up and had a really hard time starting until it cooled down a bit (had no power at all until like 3-4k RPMS) i was driving it around and trying to troubleshoot got stuck on the highway - the car still ran (only in cold start mode) but there was no response to throttle, it just idled roughly whether i floored it or eased on it 

scartching my head on the side of the highway, i ran out of diesel and it died... had to get her towed home.


now she is sitting in my garage, and i can't even start it.... (my dad tells me that the injection pump won't suck diesel from the tank by itself - he said i would have to try to tow start it a couple times up and down the block)

WHAT DO I DO?


(no power, dies when warm, rough idle, UFO lookin thing on top of the diesel pump gets really really hot 0.o)

any criticism, comment and suggestions welcome.

TIA<3

[vanbcguy]

Your symptoms sound very much like fuel starvation.  In fact that's about all they COULD be.  Sounds like you just ran out of fuel...

The VE pump CAN prime itself - your dad is generally correct as far as diesels go but these little VWs are different in that regard.  However it will take a HELL of a lot of cranking to purge all the air from the entire fuel system.  If you have a vacuum pump around, you may want to try and suck fuel through the pump from the OUT bolt fitting (after filling the tank of course!)

[burn_your_money]

Your timing could be off as well, but fuel starvation is more likely. If the car sat for 3 years without running and that low of fuel in the tank there may have been a decent amount of water in the tank. I would change the filter and take the tow start and see what happens (and then check the timing)

Also check for air bubbles going into the pump in the fuel.

The LDA (ufo thing) shouldn't get that hot...

[peacedub]

thanks for the swift reply fellas!

i still have not got her running... have been quite busy - but now as theres snow on the ground and it is getting cold i need to get her going !

i took off the line off the 1#st injector and tried cranking it yesterday... nothing came out =[

i also took the fuel filter out of the mount... shook it around seems to be about 30% full. the little screw at the bottom let out a bunch of diesel when i turned it... im going to try to tow start it today with my brother and let ya all know how it do!

cheers..


PS. any comments and suggestions highly appreciated!
 

[bajacalal]

Did you put diesel fuel in the fuel filter?

Fill it up all the way. If it's the type of filter with the 2 hose barbs instead of the spin-on, take the hoses off and use a piece of hose to fill it through the inlet side until fuel comes out the outlet side, then reconnect the outlet side to the injection pump and pour more fuel in, until it will take no more. 

Crank it for 10 second intervals then let your starter rest for a minute, it might help to have someone standing by with jumper cables. If it doesn't fire off after 5 tries, go ahead and attempt to tow it.

[ORCoaster]

Put a vacuum on the return line port on the top of the injection pump and suck fuel into the filter and the pump before you try pull starting it.  It will fire up much faster that way.  Not sure how you are going to get the glow plugs to heat up when pulling it.  If it is cold out it may really be tough to get it to go.  

[bajacalal]

Put a vacuum on the return line port on the top of the injection pump and suck fuel into the filter and the pump before you try pull starting it.  It will fire up much faster that way.  Not sure how you are going to get the glow plugs to heat up when pulling it.  If it is cold out it may really be tough to get it to go.  

They will operate normally, assuming you have a battery to power them. They come on when you turn the key to ON, not when you crank. So as long as you are well coordinated with the tow vehicle, I don't think it would be a problem.

Also, the key needs to be ON for the fuel solenoid to allow fuel into the injection pump.

[ORCoaster]

Key needs to be in and on to keep steering from locking too doesn't it?  My thought was the engine is way cold, fuel is a long way away and the time from relay off to fuel is going to be fairly long.  Maybe cycle the glows a couple times then try the pull with key on?  I think if it was my problem I would be bringing fuel up and out the top of the injectors with cranking on it then if the battery went out pull start it.  This really doesn't sound so bad, we all run out of fuel once in awhile, or rebuild a pump and need to prime it.

[8v-of-fury]

IF you ran it completely our of fuel (completely sucked the lines dry) it is going to be a *** to get fuel back up to the engine.. As you may have already noticed

Just gotta keep turning the motor over. Pulling it around is really the best option, it will be easy on everything...

Crack all four metal hard-lines at the injectors, turn the key to on and pull it around in gear. Dont even worry about glow plugs just yet.. it will spin up some compression and heat anyway.. after pulling it around for a good bit, hop out and check for diesel at the injectors. If you don't have any yet, keep pulling it.

If you have diesel at at least three of the four injectors, tighten the lines back up. Turn the key off, and back on to fire the glow plugs. Once the light goes off attempt a start. If you have fuel out the injectors, chances are I can almost guarantee you a start 100%.

[rallydiesel]

Sounds like you connected the fuel lines up backwards.

The pump is trying to suck fuel from the "to tank" line and trying to expel fuel into the "from tank" line but can't because there is a check valve. Therefore it is reusing the extra fuel from the injector returns and the fuel (and pump) is getting very hot. It also appears to be running out of fuel despite there being plenty in the tank for this reason.

[Toby]

IF you ran it completely our of fuel (completely sucked the lines dry) it is going to be a *** to get fuel back up to the engine.. As you may have already noticed

Actually it is pretty easy to do. I just pressurize the tank and bleed the filter then the line TO the pump. Pull and the injector return hose FROM the pump so you can tell when the IP is full. Then bleed the injector hard lines by "cranking and cracking" the lines, if you need to.

BE VERY CAREFUL not to over-pressurize the tank or you will blow the hose off the tank and have a 10mm stream of fuel coming out under pressure. BTDT

I like to use a leakdown tester set to about 4 psi. If the car has the vent line run forward put the pressure to it there. If not you can build a gas cap adapter or pressurize the return line. Just remember that you should remove the cap to relieve any residual pressure BEFORE removing or attempting to reconnect any lines. A 5 mm stream of fuel under pressure is better than a 10 mm stream of fuel under pressure, but you won't like either one. And I guarrantee that you will feel as silly as I did when I released the pressure and saw fuel come rushing out of the return hose at a fair clip, knowing that if I had to lean over the engine bay to plug the offending hose until the pressure bled off, since I could not get to the cap.

[8v-of-fury]

Actually it is pretty easy to do. I just pressurize the tank and bleed the filter then the line TO the pump. Pull and the injector return hose FROM the pump so you can tell when the IP is full. Then bleed the injector hard lines by "cranking and cracking" the lines, if you need to.

Also a good method, when shop air is available. I have used it with success as well. I suggested towing it around because the OP had already done so.

[Toby]

Tow starting will cure a lot of ills. It saves the battery and starter, and will pull fuel up to the pump in short order. You can also start very low compression diesels this way, as well as ones that are loaded up with fuel.

All you have to do is snap the key off and then back on to cycle the glow plugs. Doing that while towing/moving is not a problem. Most older European steering column locks don't engage until you pull the key out anyway.