Horrible cold starts.

[8v-of-fury]

I foolishly did not test the plugs before I put em in.. Like an idiot! It was a little chilly and I had already worked 9hrs.. I just wanted to go inside. Lol.

So this last start was sitting about 3.5hrs since last run, but last run was my 2km to work. So bone cold again.

I gave it a bump of the key to get some diesel on the plugs (I've heard of this being good practice too), then cycled the plugs for like 15s two cranks in I pulled the CS out which it then kindof rolled in to running.. Like it was almost catching without it.. I think I have my pump settings really whacked..

BUT that wouldn't explain the unburned fuel.. Not getting good combustion.. Ill have to bump the timing up some after work today$

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I think you still have a little air in the IP. My glow plugs are manually controlled. I find that I can start the engine instantly without glowing the plugs for 1 hour after a hot shut down only if I have no bubbles in the inlet and return lines of the IP at any time (i.e. while the engine is running or not). If there are bubbles, it does not start instantly and will need glow plugs + a lot of cranking. You need to have clean clear lines to see bubbles. When the engine is off, if you see even a small pocket of air at the highest point of the clear lines, it will inhibit instant starts and require extended cranking. As you know, air can get in anywhere, from the tank pickup up to the filters, including the IP seals and injectors and injector return lines.

[rabbitman]

I gave it a bump of the key to get some diesel on the plugs (I've heard of this being good practice too), then cycled the plugs for like 15s two cranks in I pulled the CS out which it then kindof rolled in to running.. Like it was almost catching without it.. I think I have my pump settings really whacked..

That is totally not true, you want a nice hot prechamber (hence the GP's) before any fuel goes in. I've found that if my bunny is too cold and doesn't start, kills the battery and I start jumping it and boosting it and all that it pretty much floods out and won't start even if I do get it to crank fast.

Same with my golf which I've never got running right, if it doesn't start right up I have to give up and wait a while before trying again.

[ORCoaster]

Pull that CS knob out before you shut the engine off next time.  I find it works best to have that extra advance at the first crank of the starter and not wait for a couple cranks. 

[CRSMP5]

i find on old worn ones.. to pull as your car starts to fire is best.. to pull first.. some will not start.. 

[8v-of-fury]

I find that I can start the engine instantly without glowing the plugs for 1 hour after a hot shut down. You need to have clean clear lines to see bubbles. When the engine is off, if you see even a small pocket of air at the highest point of the clear lines, it will inhibit instant starts and require extended cranking. As you know, air can get in anywhere, from the tank pickup up to the filters, including the IP seals and injectors and injector return lines.

Yup I can easily no plug start it again even after only running for a few minutes within 20 minutes. This summer we saw high temps of 25-27C (77-80F) ambient temperature, I didn't even need to use my glow plugs and it fired off in two to three cranks. I have clear lines and the only air that i see at the high spots is in the main return line.. but i do have the stupid style "pre-heat" filter.. (I may be ditching it for the old school style this week. lol) It is probably letting some air in from the return where it drains back to the tank in the return line and then air from the tank works up in to the filter.. and thus allowing it in to the feed.. But I dont think this is my problem.. it almost seems like an air leak issue.. but i don't see any bubbles. Running or not.

Pull that CS knob out before you shut the engine off next time.  I find it works best to have that extra advance at the first crank of the starter and not wait for a couple cranks. 

I was thinking I was just going to advance my timing a bit. I have all the tools and have done it a hundred times, no big feat to me.. takes 10 minutes. I was gonna go up 0.001 or 0.002" and see where that puts me for tomorrow morning..

 

i find on old worn ones.. to pull as your car starts to fire is best.. to pull first.. some will not start.. 

Don't know the mileage on the pump, but it was resealed within the last 40k.

[rabbitman]

Pull that CS knob out before you shut the engine off next time.  I find it works best to have that extra advance at the first crank of the starter and not wait for a couple cranks. 

That is no different than pulling it just before cranking since it's all mechanical so as long as there's no pressure in the pump when pulled it'll advance it a set amount. After the pump builds pressure as when revved the advance will be past what the CS knob can do.

[ORCoaster]

When I read it, I got the impression he was letting the starter turn a couple of turns before pulling the knob out.  Is that not true?  He said a couple of cranks into it I pull the CS knob. 

I pull knob then glow the plugs then hit the starter, with foot half way down on the accelerator.  Don't you have those instructions right above your head on the sun visor?  There is a label there on mine that tells me what to do when hot or cold.  Picture time?

[damac]

Do you have the cold start instructions for your car from the manual?  I don't have high idle on my pump but my book tells you what to do depending on temps.  If you don't have air bubbles at your pump inlet, and your glowplugs are working and starter cranking over fast you should be where my car is at and it doesn't sound normal.

I have my pump set by ear right now but it only gets into the 40's as of now.  I have my pump set so that it idles around 950 rpm.  I have the stock glowplug system in place with pimped glowplugs which I am soon replacing with a manual switch cause the stock relay just started going nuts.  I let the light go off and start the car without the lever pulled and it starts rather quickly.  And it will stay idling but it stumbles a bit, but not too much white smoke, just a hint.  Its obvious at this time that it likes the cold start lever out so I pull it for a couple minutes and drive off.  Not bad hammering going at this time but you can tell the difference.

Also if I crank it over with the lever pulled or not there isn't really a noticeable difference so I am close, but I do like the way the car seems to drive.  I don't get any injector pinging throughout the range.

I did have the car running at one time advanced enough that it seemed to get a bit marbley in the mid range and I think I burnt some glowplugs as well.  At that time you couldn't start the car with the lever pulled out because you could hear the starter fighting to turn the engine over.

I also would add a big fat ground from starter mount to battery just for the hell of it.  It made turnovers much faster on my starter, especially when hot.


I know after watching videos of my own that its hard to convey the engine bay noise on these engines but here is one of my car for fun   So I just start it up, then pull the handle because it seems to like it and it runs smooth cold.  This is only like 40 something degrees, and it only gets into the teens for us during winter.  This is just under 1000 rpm, do you have a tach on yours?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KemaWpPC5o

[rabbitman]

When I read it, I got the impression he was letting the starter turn a couple of turns before pulling the knob out.  Is that not true?  He said a couple of cranks into it I pull the CS knob. 

I pull knob then glow the plugs then hit the starter, with foot half way down on the accelerator.  Don't you have those instructions right above your head on the sun visor?  There is a label there on mine that tells me what to do when hot or cold.  Picture time?

I don't have the instructions. What I meant is pulling the cold start before shut down and pulling it before cranking is the same thing.

[CRSMP5]

old worn engines not pumps...

try it...

as you crank it over and as it starts to fire pull the knob..

[8v-of-fury]

When I read it, I got the impression he was letting the starter turn a couple of turns before pulling the knob out.  Is that not true?  He said a couple of cranks into it I pull the CS knob. 

I pull knob then glow the plugs then hit the starter, with foot half way down on the accelerator.  Don't you have those instructions right above your head on the sun visor?  There is a label there on mine that tells me what to do when hot or cold.  Picture time?

There is at least 18 different ways people say to start em I don't have the sticker my car was originally a gas car that i converted last year. lol

Do you have the cold start instructions for your car from the manual?  I don't have high idle on my pump but my book tells you what to do depending on temps.  If you don't have air bubbles at your pump inlet, and your glowplugs are working and starter cranking over fast you should be where my car is at and it doesn't sound normal.

No instructions. I understand the pumps very well, I understand what is going on inside of them when all this is happening. Glowplugs seem to be working.. I did the glow and feel the plugs idea.. and they didnt feel "hot" warm sure.. but i guess they are screwed in to a huge aluminum heatsink! lol/b]

I also would add a big fat ground from starter mount to battery just for the hell of it.  It made turnovers much faster on my starter, especially when hot.

Yup got that too. It is my main engine/trans ground to battery. Not the starter mount, but the next closest trans bolt lol. I Dont have any hot turnover issues at all.

I know after watching videos of my own that its hard to convey the engine bay noise on these engines but here is one of my car for fun  So I just start it up, then pull the handle because it seems to like it and it runs smooth cold.  This is only like 40 something degrees, and it only gets into the teens for us during winter.  This is just under 1000 rpm, do you have a tach on yours?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KemaWpPC5o

Cool video nice car. However for future reference it is bad to blip the throttle with the Cold start pulled out. The throttle slamming back against the timing piston will self machine itself because of the throttle slamming against it. I have heard of it sending little flakes of aluminum through the pump.. just to forewarn. I have no tach.. I honestly set my idle to where my dashboard doesn't vibrate

I always glow for longer than ten seconds if its even remotely chilly, and i always run my electric pump to keep everything primed while I'm glowing. I have tried these ways;

-Prime and glow no cold start handle. Start. runs rough but will idle fine, no need for cold start.
-Prime and glow w/cs handle out prior to cranking. start. May be harder to start? cant be sure (ive changed the timing to much to be sure).
-Prime and glow. start cranking, pull cs out on second crank. fires off. Don't know if easier or not.. tried to many ways.
-no prime just glow, no cs handle prior or after starting. fires off.

Anyway I do it it still starts.. I have messed with pump settings again to raise the idle, and it has seemed to help me out.

old worn engines not pumps...

try it...

as you crank it over and as it starts to fire pull the knob..

Engines a baby with 300k. It was super cared for by the PO. synthetics blah blah. Now I take the sumbish to 6000rpms lmao.

Its cold now, im goin outside! lol

[ORCoaster]

Damac,  I only have the label on the visor, no owners manual just a Bent up Bentley.  My car fires fine now that the air bubbles are out of the system.  But it didn't do bad with them in either.  But my engine is 123,000 miles young.  Wish I could say the same.

I have converted my glow plugs over to the Ford relay system and have each glow on a fuse and 12 gauge wire.  Which I need to check this weekend as I saw blue smoke the other day for the first time in a long time at starting.  When I tested the standard system with a meter my relay would click on and after the dash light went out there was still voltage to the plugs long after the light was out.  Have you run a similar test to see if the time of actual glowing is proper?  Strike that I think I remember something about a full glowing at 20 seconds.  

I noticed that timing for drive may affect startup as well.  I hate to give up the good performance just to get the car started, and we shouldn't have to, right.  I mean a proper tuning will take care of both troubles.  

I installed a stiff cable to the accelerator arm on my car to allow me to rest my leg on my long drives.  Call it a poor mans cruise control, high idle set or what ever but on these colder mornings once the engine is running I pull it out to bump the idle and take care of all the other stuff I need to do prior to driving away.  Roll each window down and up to get rid of the moisture so I can see out, hit the wipers, install the navigation unit on the window as my speedo is way off, and belt up real good cause the people drive like nuts around me.  

Have you run any automatic transmission fluid in with your diesel lately or any kind of injector cleaner?  Might just be a luggy in there and it needs to get out.  

[R.O.R-2.0]

prime the car? what do you mean? does your pump loose prime?

if its hard to start cold, then your timing is usually too far retarded, or if the cold start makes it HARDER to start, then its too far advanced..

my car, it fires up with or without the cold start out, but it runs much smoother if you pull the cold start..

usually, i pull the cold start as im idling up the driveway at night, before i shut the car off..

if i fire without the cold start pulled, it misses a bit for about 20 seconds.. may have a burnt glow plug.

[ORCoaster]

I wonder if he needs to adjust the cold start lever.  It only moves so much and if it is worn a bit then it may not be advancing at full pull.  I did that to mine once.  Had to move it over like two splines on the shaft to make it push far enough over to really do the advancement.