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early 1.9TD injection pump on a 1.6TD motor???
by
SR Heer
on 15 Sep, 2011 16:54
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I have this early 1.9TD VE Bosch injection pump ( 0 460 494 286 ) that has the three elongated or eliptical holes for timing in its housing/case - can I effectivly install on a 1.6TD and use even though it really was ment to be used on a 1.9TD motor?
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#1
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 15 Sep, 2011 16:56
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pretty sure you will have to bend whatever lines you decide to use to make them hook up..
i think the delivery valves are ALOT longer on the AAZ pump..
and the AAZ injection lines are set up for TALL injectors..
1.6 injectors are short.
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#2
by
SR Heer
on 15 Sep, 2011 17:01
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no just the early 1.9TD pump not including lines is going onto the 1.6TD motor - what I was wondering is would the 1.9TD fuel delivery be any different or much different than the 1.6TD such that it would not run well or best???
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#3
by
SR Heer
on 15 Sep, 2011 17:19
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Ok - you are correct I just checked - the deliver valves are shorter on a 1.6D pump in comparison to the 1.9TD - don't know if the 1.6TD deliver valves are like the 1.6s or 1.9s - how difficult is it to swap the 1.6 deliver valves over onto the early 1.9TD pump and would this 1.9TD pump work on the 1.6TD motor?
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#4
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 15 Sep, 2011 17:35
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Ok - you are correct I just checked - the deliver valves are shorter on a 1.6D pump in comparison to the 1.9TD - don't know if the 1.6TD deliver valves are like the 1.6s or 1.9s - how difficult is it to swap the 1.6 diliver valves over onto the early 1.9TD pump and would this 1.9TD pump work on the 1.6TD motor?
i dont think the pump would run right with the wrong delivery valves in it..
ive never heard of anyone doing this, and it would be EASY to just swap the delivery valves from the 1.6, and 1.9, but ive never seen, or heard of anyone doing it, so i imagine its probably not worth doing.. im sure you arent the first guy on the planet to come up with that idea. pretty sure you cant just go swapping around DV's and stuff like that..
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#5
by
vanbcguy
on 15 Sep, 2011 19:30
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The cam plate in the 1.9 pump is definitely different than the cam in the 1.6 pump. It also has 2-stage injectors, so I believe the delivery valves are different. If you ask a Bosch guy I'm sure the answer will be to only use the components as a matched set. I'm 99% certain you could run an AAZ pump, AAZ lines and AAZ injectors on a 1.6 with absolutely no ill effects (other than reduced noise, reduced smoke and easier starting!). You also could run a 1.6 pump, lines and injectors on an AAZ with the opposite set of "effects".
All that said, I believe that the Giles superpumps include an AAZ cam plate even in 1.6TD applications. So chances are the AAZ pump will work ok with the 1.6TD stuff, but yeah the issue is injector lines. I HAVE seen an AAZ that someone put a 1.6TD head on complete with the 1.6TD injectors, and then butchered the AAZ lines to get them to reach the 1.6TD injectors. In my opinion that's a seriously bad idea as the lines are easy enough to crack as it is - the less stress you can put on them the better. I'd imagine you want to keep the delivery valves and the cam plate matched - again who knows what Giles does in that regard.
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#6
by
Powered by Spearco
on 15 Sep, 2011 20:12
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My pump from Giles was built for a 1.6TD. The pump is a 1.6TD pump but with an AAZ cam plate and 10mm TDI distributor head. It had 1.6TD delivery valves, injectors and used 1.6TD lines when I got it from Giles but then changed to the AAZ delivery valves and injectors but still using the 1.6TD lines modded to fit.
So you can change back and forth but you need the correct delivery valve shims for the AAZ stuff.
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#7
by
regcheeseman
on 20 Sep, 2011 07:33
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The cam plate in the 1.9 pump is definitely different than the cam in the 1.6 pump.
In the UK the camplates are the same between 1.6 and 1.9 pumps, there are a few 1.6 pumps with that lame camplate you get over there - most have the AAZ style one with around 4mm of total lift IIRC
As for the delivery nozzles, again I've swapped 1.6 - 1.9 - no problems.
The biggest issue with swapping a 1.9 onto the 1.6 is that the nose of the 1.9 pump is about 60mm diameter and the 1.6 is about 48mm - so they just don't physically fit.
However you've got the slotted hole mounting 1.9 pump, I've never seen one of these to check, but I'd bet it shares the external dimensions with the 1.6 pump.
Bolt it on and give it a go.
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#8
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 20 Sep, 2011 08:04
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The cam plate in the 1.9 pump is definitely different than the cam in the 1.6 pump.
In the UK the camplates are the same between 1.6 and 1.9 pumps, there are a few 1.6 pumps with that lame camplate you get over there - most have the AAZ style one with around 4mm of total lift IIRCAs for the delivery nozzles, again I've swapped 1.6 - 1.9 - no problems.
The biggest issue with swapping a 1.9 onto the 1.6 is that the nose of the 1.9 pump is about 60mm diameter and the 1.6 is about 48mm - so they just don't physically fit.
However you've got the slotted hole mounting 1.9 pump, I've never seen one of these to check, but I'd bet it shares the external dimensions with the 1.6 pump.
Bolt it on and give it a go.
That's interesting, I thought all 1.6 cams are 2.3mm, or 85thou. Perhaps your experience of 1.6's are restricted to GTD pumps... Not a bad restriction in most people's eyes 
My Mk2 Passats all seem that way. I've not measured 'my' GTD. I know that the Bosch pump on a 1.9TD FIAT is about 3 or 4mm.
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#9
by
regcheeseman
on 27 Sep, 2011 07:02
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I've only ever seen that 2.3 mm camplate once - thought it was just seriously worn at first.
I have worked on mostly GTDs and AAZ's, but have also played with a few normal 1.6TDs.
The only pump I saw with the weak camplate was a ECO - (NA style top) 1.6 TD pump.
I'm sure the last AAZ I modded was around 4 mm - I had the gauge in, checking the lock positon preload and then thought, hmmm I wonder?
I never wrote anything down or made a critical measurement of the cam lobes - just a bit of curiosity.
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#10
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 27 Sep, 2011 08:38
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I've only ever seen that 2.3 mm camplate once - thought it was just seriously worn at first.
I have worked on mostly GTDs and AAZ's, but have also played with a few normal 1.6TDs.
The only pump I saw with the weak camplate was a ECO - (NA style top) 1.6 TD pump.
I'm sure the last AAZ I modded was around 4 mm - I had the gauge in, checking the lock positon preload and then thought, hmmm I wonder?
I never wrote anything down or made a critical measurement of the cam lobes - just a bit of curiosity.
I agree that it seems standard for 1.9 stuff, but I've never looked at the GTD pump. Strange, that the Mk2 Passats should have the 2.3 'cam with less power, when they are the heaviest vehicle of the range.
Having said that I do have an untouched mk2 Passat Fastback turbo diesel amongst my collection of estates, so that may have a different cam...
If only someone had a pre version 5 'KATE' to refer to it may still have the discontinued part number data
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#11
by
regcheeseman
on 27 Sep, 2011 14:00
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Strangely, I've had four passat pumps and two passat engines - they've all been GTD spec. My current GTD motor in the Golf was originally from a passat estate.
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#12
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 27 Sep, 2011 14:46
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Strangely, I've had four passat pumps and two passat engines - they've all been GTD spec. My current GTD motor in the Golf was originally from a passat estate.
Ah you're talkin' ugly 'jelly mold' mk3 intercooled then. So they have GTD spec pumps. As in the 1.6 rather than 1.9. Do they have SB engines or AAZ or both?
How has your fuel economy been with your different setups?
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#13
by
regcheeseman
on 28 Sep, 2011 07:07
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All SB's - I've never seen a RA
Only ever had one AAZ and that was in a mk3 golf estate - bought as a donor, it was so miserable to drive I sold it on again.
Fuel economy? you've spent far too long on here!
I've no idea - it's just so much better than any petrol car I've had to run.