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**Gasoline to Diesel Conversion**
by
wizard-of-od
on 31 Jan, 2006 02:45
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Hey all,
I was directed here by resident Diesel guru MaloneTDi and I was hoping I could get your help on a project I really want to take on with the price of gas in Barbados @ $1.15US/L and climbing.
I have an Audi 80 B4 2.0E with an
ABK gasoline engine (Counterflow 236mm tall block ABA).Now the engine runs off everyone's favourite digifant-II system which seems to have worked well so far :roll: but its time to take the car off the road and sort out all the bits and pieces it needs doing.The automatic transmission has started to let loose so I placed an order with a friend of mine in the UK for a 6-Speed FWD unit from an Audi A6 2.5TDi.Long story short...I want to take out the digi-garbage and go diesel,but @ the same time I dont want a big cloud of black smock everytime I flat my foot.
The only problem I forsee is that the ABK block doesnt have the provission for a VR sensor so I cant do TDI unless I put a 4-slot wheel on the crankshaft pulley.Now I have fixed many IDI's before and I know how to do regular maintainence on them but I have never attempted a gasoline to TDi conversion.
What I need from you guys is some help/guidance as to what route I should go.What I should look out for in terms of fuel pump ,fuel tank as well as what head I should use and such.I want to bring this car back to being my daily driver rather than the golf GTi as I have been with this car for too long so go easy on me...pretend I was a noob. :lol:
* Audi 80 ABK 82.5mm bore Block
* Audi 80 ABK 92.8mm stroke crankshaft
* ATP 8V cast turbo manifold
* T3 Super 60 turbocharger
* Audi A4 AEB Oil Pan
* Audi A4 AEB Oil Pump & pick up
* APR 8V head studs.
Here is a picture of the engine and this is the car in question:
Thanks
Issam Abed
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#1
by
chrissev
on 31 Jan, 2006 05:10
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so from reading your post I gather that you want to convert a gasoline engine to a diesel engine? My advice to you would be not to do it. Especially as you are planning on running a turbo on it. VW tried to do it with their 1.5 diesel engine and as anyone who's had one of these things can tell you, they were pieces of crap. GM tried to do it and the results are legendary (remember the Cadillac diesel? worst car ever built? The Chevette diesel?). Diesel engines are best engineered from the ground up and gasoline to diesel conversions are notoriously bad things.
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#2
by
veeman
on 31 Jan, 2006 06:41
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Hey Wiz....
I recognize you from MG and also from the V_rtex... Just so I understand, are you asking about turning your current gas project engine (20V, right?) into a diesel engine?
You mention the Audi 2.5 V6 motor as well... Is that going into the same car eventually?
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#3
by
zyewdall
on 31 Jan, 2006 07:28
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If you are getting the 2.5TDI transmission, why not get the 2.5TDI engine with it. That should be fairly straightforward swap -- have to change ECU's and harnesses of course, but probably easier, and definitely more reliable. Here in the US, we're still suffering from the fallout of the GM 5.7L diesel. 20 years later, most manufacturers still refuse to sell diesels in the US because everyone hates them.
As far as black smoke, you can tune the engine so it produces very little if any black smoke. And running biodiesel helps alot. My truck went from 48% opacity to 8% opacity when I switched to biodiesel, adjusted the fueling screw, and advanced the timing a little. Power is a little less, but I'm less obnoxious to everyone else on the road.
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#4
by
wizard-of-od
on 31 Jan, 2006 07:29
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so from reading your post I gather that you want to convert a gasoline engine to a diesel engine?
I will only be using the block and crankshaft.Connecting rods,pistons etc will be diesel units.
Just so I understand, are you asking about turning your current gas project engine (20V, right?) into a diesel engine?
No no...after all the money I recently poured into the 20V,are you mad? :lol:
I allready have an 8V gasoline turbo sitting on an engine stand and a 20V sitting 5 feet from me.I am talking about taking my daily driver (ex daily driver) which has a counterflow aba engine in it and using that engine as a base for diesel since the diesel's use the same 236mm block.Now the reason I didnt just buy a diesel block is because the diesel block does not have provision's for longitudinal engine mounts and thats a hassle I am not willing to tackle.I would prefer to get custom pistons made than engine mount brackets.
You mention the Audi 2.5 V6 motor as well... Is that going into the same car eventually?
The 2.5 engine I am talking about is an inline-5 TDi (used by VW in there TDi race Jetta/Golf) found in the 1996 Audi A6.It comes with a FWD 6-Speed gearbox whose first 3 gears are the same as an RS2
If you are getting the 2.5TDI transmission, why not get the 2.5TDI engine with it. That should be fairly straightforward swap -- have to change ECU's and harnesses of course, but probably easier.
My days of inline-5 engines are over.I prefer to stick it out with the inline-4.I went to a local junkyard here last week,there were OVER 40 Jetta/golf's with TD engine's.Besides the inline-5 deserves quattro if its going to be mounted longitudinally.
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#5
by
Redlined
on 31 Jan, 2006 08:13
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the only useful diesel conversion i've ever seen was a mercedes diesel into a lada niva.
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#6
by
veeman
on 31 Jan, 2006 08:16
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>>.I am talking about taking my daily driver (ex daily driver) which has a counterflow aba engine in it and using that engine as a base for diesel since the diesel's use the same 236mm block.
Ah... Ok. Makes more sense now. Someone here was just talking about trying somewhat the same thing with an ABA...
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2966>>Now the reason I didnt just buy a diesel block is because the diesel block does not have provision's for longitudinal engine mounts and thats a hassle I am not willing to tackle.I would prefer to get custom pistons made than engine mount brackets.
Hmmm..... Interesting. I wonder how much pistons would be then... Would the brackets be really bad to make? Are the Quantum mounts different as well? I had an 80 fwd (4-cyl), but I can't remember how that engine sat in there.
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#7
by
zyewdall
on 31 Jan, 2006 08:43
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Personally, I'd rather fabricate engine mounts -- just a little grinding and welding... But to each his own.
But I'm a little confused. The old 1.6D/1.8gas were the same block (different bore maybe?), but they were used in both longitudinal and transverse mounted cars. Did they switch to a different block design later on that is specific to which car is was put in?
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#8
by
vwmike
on 31 Jan, 2006 09:20
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If you want a TDI, I would think one from a MK3 would have the proper bosses for the longitudinal mounts
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#9
by
jossTD
on 31 Jan, 2006 12:04
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i've got an audi 80 1.9td 1992 witch is longitudinal and it's the same engine of the golf 3 td code AAZ.
maybe you can find some engine mount in a junkyard, i also know that the 1.6 td bolt in the audi 80.
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#10
by
wizard-of-od
on 31 Jan, 2006 14:04
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Hmmm..... Interesting. I wonder how much pistons would be then... Would the brackets be really bad to make? Are the Quantum mounts different as well? I had an 80 fwd (4-cyl), but I can't remember how that engine sat in there.
The Quantam engine mount brackets mount the engine to the subframe,not the frame rails like the B4 does.As for pistons,I remember malone telling me there were some 82.5mm units produced by VAG and I only had to machine them 1.35mm's
Did they switch to a different block design later on that is specific to which car is was put in?
Well the ABK has more bolt holes to accomodate more BS.Its basically a watered down/hybrid AEB block.In other words you can bolt an ABK block in a golf but you cant bolt a Golf block in a B4 Audi.
If you want a TDI, I would think one from a MK3 would have the proper bosses for the longitudinal mounts
How sure are you of this?This is the ABK drivers side:
i've got an audi 80 1.9td 1992 witch is longitudinal and it's the same engine of the golf 3 td code AAZ.
maybe you can find some engine mount in a junkyard, i also know that the 1.6 td bolt in the audi 80.
I am sure its the same engine (well similar) as VW's are like lego,however if there is one thing I have learnt over the years pertaining to VW's & engine codes is that they are different for a reason.There is ALWAYS something that is different whether a different screw for a flange or a different bolt hole,etc.
So back to the topic @ hand.What else do I need to complete my shopping list?
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#11
by
vwmike
on 31 Jan, 2006 14:48
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I'm not 100% sure, but I'll have an AHU to check....hopefully by this weekend.
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#12
by
RabbitJockey
on 31 Jan, 2006 17:51
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could you put a diesel head on an aba block and have enough compression? that would make a sweet engine. aba+1.9 head+turbo=woot woot
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#13
by
deepmud
on 31 Jan, 2006 23:06
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I am looking at a TDI from
here - they source from Europe, and the supplier mentioned me getting an Audi TDI so it has the vnt17 and the north/south configuration. The prices are good - really good. Have you looked at sources for Audi TDI diesels?