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Getting ready to install new injector nozzles in my 1V Ecodoiesel
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 23 Aug, 2011 17:48
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Now that the head gasket job is done and my injection pump reseal has stopped all leaks, it is time to install, adjust and pop test the Monark DNO SD 297 nozzles. The set of injectors in the car pop tested within specs and very closely matched with good patterns, but they probably have 180K miles on them. I was thinking of keeping them as a spare working set and rebuild a set of 155 bar and 135 bar injectors that were given to me. They were pretty cruddy looking on the outside and were all streamers and did not spray well. Upon disassembly, they had siezed needles in the nozzle and some had rust inside the bodies so I will not be using those.
Are the 130 bar and 155 bar injector bodies physically the same other than the markings stamped into the bodies?
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#1
by
Luckypabst
on 23 Aug, 2011 18:58
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Yes.
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#2
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Aug, 2011 09:25
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The difference between injectors is the shim, possibly variation in the spring, [but 130 to 155 bar attainable from either springs], and the nozzle SD code, but all nozzles for the 1.5 to 1.6 entirely interchangeable.
Back to your torquing proceedure for the 1V.
Same bolts, same gaskets and the exact same part no for 1V as the MF [1.6TD] head, so torquing procedure the same even if omitted by the wonderous Bentley rag mag
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#3
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 25 Aug, 2011 14:08
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#4
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Aug, 2011 15:11
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This is the Bentley I have
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/findMyCar.do?action=getresults&forward=index&make=Volkswagen&model=jetta&year=1992
Getting back to the injectors, have you swapped springs between injectors to fine tune the pop pressures? I measured all the springs taken from the injectors and they are not all the same length so I was thinking of swapping them around after doing a pop measurement. For the shims, 0.05 mm difference equates to approx 5 bars. Is there a rule of thumbs for spring length?
Spring lengths do vary, but so do their strength, so swapping stuff around takes a little more skill than immediately apparent. Bits of razorblade and tape measure spring help get the match closer in my experience
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#5
by
Luckypabst
on 25 Aug, 2011 16:28
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Why is this spiraling into another torque discussion?
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#6
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 25 Aug, 2011 16:48
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.....Spring lengths do vary, but so do their strength, so swapping stuff around takes a little more skill than immediately apparent. Bits of razorblade and tape measure spring help get the match closer in my experience[/color]
Have you disassmebled injectors after extended use and inspect the bits of razor blade and tape measure spring shims? How did they hold up? The worry is their hardness (or lack of or the wrong temper) and getting beat to a pulp. If true, the pulp bits can clog the nozzle passages.
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#7
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Aug, 2011 16:58
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Why is this spiraling into another torque discussion?
Hopefully the info I've just given provides sufficent knowledge to close the other thread, and provide useful information for this thread, and I couldn't be bothered to change threads, but perhaps I might transfer the data.
Spiralling? As if... 
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#8
by
Luckypabst
on 25 Aug, 2011 17:10
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Proper shims are available at a nice price. I forget the guys contact info but you can find it easily enough via searching the site. I purchased 4 of every size and I believe it came in somewhere around $100.
Chris
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#9
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 25 Aug, 2011 17:20
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Yes I know you can buy them. Not that I'm about to make my own shims. It's just that I am interested in Mark making his own and his outcome.
Proper shims are available at a nice price. I forget the guys contact info but you can find it easily enough via searching the site. I purchased 4 of every size and I believe it came in somewhere around $100.
Chris
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#10
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Aug, 2011 17:26
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Proper shims are available at a nice price. I forget the guys contact info but you can find it easily enough via searching the site. I purchased 4 of every size and I believe it came in somewhere around $100.
Chris
A good price, I suppose, but they often don't get a good enough match, and soon you run out of the closest ones and then are 8 bar out unless you only have one or two injector sets
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#11
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 26 Aug, 2011 21:19
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The new nozzles are in. I ended up rebuilding the set of injectors that were in the car since they have not sat around like the ones given to me. I used the same shims and all 4 injectors popped at 2300 psi without any adjustment! This is testament to the quality of the Monark nozzles.
Did you know the springs and thrust pins from a 135 bar injector are not interchangeable with 155 bar injectors? The thrust pin diameter (the part that fits in the spring) is bigger on the 155 bar injectors.
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#12
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 27 Aug, 2011 05:43
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The new nozzles are in. I ended up rebuilding the set of injectors that were in the car since they have not sat around like the ones given to me. I used the same shims and all 4 injectors popped at 2300 psi without any adjustment! This is testament to the quality of the Monark nozzles.
Did you know the springs and thrust pins from a 135 bar injector are not interchangeable with 155 bar injectors? The thrust pin diameter (the part that fits in the spring) is bigger on the 155 bar injectors.
Yep I found that out, with one injector I was rebuilding. That may have been how I broke one onf my new old stock French 293's. One of the 3 remaining had a poor fit needle to nozzle as well, so my first attempt to have new nozzles failed, and I went back to salvaged ones for a few $ each, matched and pop tested by me.
You can of course go the other way, or keep the spring...EDIT What break pressure are you running for your 297's Ah I see 158bar. Interestingly one of the lists that I have mention the 297's as used in the ECO, they were set to 130 bar.
The only real concern is your timing may well be out, but if you're happy to 'Hagar' it then you'll be fine 
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#13
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 27 Aug, 2011 14:40
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The injector bodies from my car are marked 155 bars. When disassembled, I found 297 French nozzles in there. I have no idea if these are originals or if they have been replaced at some point by the PO. Do you know what nozzles and pop pressure the Ecodiesel's should have? I'd like to build another set of injectors set to 130 bars and experiment with getting higher fuel economy. The new Monark 297 nozzles are running really well, same power as the old French 297's. The difference I am noticing is the power is smoother and there is less smoke both at idle and full throttle. With the old nozzles, if I put the pedal to the metal I'd get a cloud of smoke. With the Monarks, no more cloud. I assume the old nozzles are worn with bigger orifices and letting more fuel through? Do you know the relationship between the amount of erosion on the nozzle face vs mileage on the injectors?
With regards to the different thrust pins and springs, from what I can tell, you can interchange them as a set but not mix them. e.g. if you take a thrust pin from a 155 bar nozzle and put it in a 130 bar spring, the thrust pin will fit into the hole in the spring due to interference. If you take a thrust pin from a 130 bar injector and put it in a 155 bar spring, it will fit but it will be very loose. I do not know if the 155 bar springs are stronger than the 130 bar springs. The shims taken out of the 130 bar injectors are thinner than shims taken from the 155 bar injectors.