How to replace timing belt, and cold start O-ring on pump. - page 1 - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• How to replace timing belt, and cold start O-ring on pump. by bryanbryan89x on 24 Jan, 2006 07:02
• Hey everyone please give your input on this topic of changing the timing belt and cold start 0-ring.
  
  
  On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:25:51 -0800 (PST)
   Big Al Hailey <[email protected]> wrote:
  > Bryan,
  > I am looking to replace the O ring on my 82 Caddy and
  >saw that you had done yours and it worked out great.  I
  >had a couple of questions though.  I have gotten to the
  >point of taking most everything off, but if I can get
  >away without removing my timing belt, I would much rather
  >do it that way.  Would it be possible to get the O ring
  >replaced if I could get the cold start bolts out without
  >removing the pump? Also, how difficult was it for you to
  >get the fix done?  Did you have to redo the timing on the
  >pump after all was said and done?  Did you do that
  >yourself or had someone do it for you?
  >
  > I have never had to remove my timing belt for a repair
  >before and am quite nervous about it.  I just don't have
  >all the tools or the know how.  Any advice would be
  >appreciated.
  >
  > Thanks,
  > Al
  >
  >
  >       
  > ---------------------------------
  > Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
  > Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it!
• #1 by bryanbryan89x on 24 Jan, 2006 07:02
• I would say that it is possible to replace the cold start O-ring without removing the pump, however, you would have to have skinny long fingers.  Just find a torx bit & get a 5/16" wrench, and see if you can get it that way.  Then try to pull out the old O-ring replace with your new one and put the cover back on and make sure both torx head bolts are equally tight.  you do not need to retime anything if you go that approach.  I removed my pump to do this job.  It was a good time to change my timing belt also. Another reason I removed my pump was because I did not want to drip diesel all over my coolent hoses because it will deteriate them.  If you have had this leak for some time I would suggest changing the coolent hoses in that area.  you can get a whole set for 30 dollars from the parts place in aurburn hills.  It is really not that bad to change/retime the timing belt, and you do not necessarily need any special tools.  It should be changed every 50K or so.  If you want to go the approach of removing your pump. Then the procedure is as follows...
  
  1.  Remove The injector lines (put some small caps over the tops of the injectors so nothing falls into them), remove upper timing belt cover, remove V-belt, remove the pully on the crank, remove the water pump pully, then remove the plastic lower timing belt cover.  There is a idler/tensioner pully that you need to loosen. Now you can take of your old timing belt.
  
  2.  The next step is removing your pump.  Remove the sprocket on the pump (please use a wheel puller). Then remove The shut off wire, cold start cable, accelerator cable.  Then there are three bolts on the pully side of it, and one or two bolts on the other side of it that hold it in place.  With the pump out look at your coolent hoses replace if needed.
  
  3.  The next step is replacing your seal.  First clean of the exterior of your pump very well you dont want any dirt to get inside.  I got a whole gasket kit for my pump it ran me $18.  replace the o-ring in question and tighten back down the cover I would say 7.5 ft*lbs
  
  4.  Putting your pump back in.  Is as reverse as step 2 EXCEPT make sure you line up the little line on the pump with the line on the mounting plate as close as you can get it.  Then tighten down the bolts. Put your sprocket back on.  Torque it down.
  
  5.  The next step is timing your engine.  You must have your cam, crank and pump all running in sync with each other.  It will blow up or not run if they are not...so it is very important to get this step right.
  
  A.  You need both your valves on the number 1 piston to be closed.  First remove your valve cover.  Next rotate your cam shaft until both lobes on the shaft are pointing upwards.  As you can kinda feel the cam shaft snaps into 4 different positions and it takes quite a considerable force to move it from one to the next so it is not necessary to lock it in place, but if you feel the need. On the end of the shaft by the number 4 cyclinder there is a slot to wedge something into to hold it.
  
  B.  The next is timing your crank shaft.  Here is where it will help to have someone help  you.  There is a plug on the bell housing.  It is hexagon shapped, and with a diamater of approx 2 inches.  you need to unscrew this plug (not only pull out the thing in the center of it) but unscrew the whole hexagon.  Next have someone spin the crank shaft slowly by putting a socket and rachet on it.  And you get a flashlight and look down that hole (there is a triangle on the fly wheel and there is another triangle on the hole where you pulled the octagon out at.  Line these two up as best as you can.
  
  C.   The third thing to time is the pump which is the easiest.  There is a line on the sprocket of the pump and there is a line on the pump (the one you had to line up eariler in step 4) line these two up.  Finally you have to slip on the belt with all three of these things lined up(easier said than done). The way I do it is, wrap it around the crank sprocket, then up around the idler/tensioner pully around the crank sprocket. Then wrap it around the intermediate shaft pully.  So in essence you are slipping it on the injector pump sprocket last.  It may take a few trys, but each time you do it make sure your crank is still lined up.  Once you have it where you want it tighten the tensioner pully.  To test the tension on the timing belt grab it with your index finger and your thumb, you should only be able to bend it 90 degrees from its starting position.
  
  6.  Hook up your injection pump (cables, shut off wire, and injector lines. and fuel lines).  Hopefully not too much diesel leaked out of your pump if it did prime your pump or your battery will have to do some work priming it for you.  Now see if you can start up your car.  It may not start up right away because of the fuel leaking out of the pump.  If you cant get it (chances are pump needs to be primed better) you may be a tooth or so off.  retime it again and see what happens
  
  I have replaced 3 timing belts all with this same procedure, and one time I was a tooth or so off and my car didnt go above 45mph.
  
  7. As soon as your car is running good shut it off, and hook everything else back up.  Also it is very important to make sure your upper timing belt cover is not rubbing against your timing belt.  It will eat up the belts.  So be extra careful putting this back on making sure you use all the bolts that came out of it.
  
  In conclusion if your belt does not need to be replaced then first try to replace the seal with the pump on the car.  But if you were in the situation I was in I replaced my belt, headgasket, valve adjustment, coolent hoses, O-ring in pump, exhaust and intake gaskets, block heater.  all in one time and it worked out nice for me.  Also get the Bentley manual it will have pictures and help more.
• #2 by Big Al Hailey on 25 Jan, 2006 20:16
• I have been looking online a couple of times for the proper kit and I do not if I have the proper one.  Does anyone know where I can find it?
• #3 by bryanbryan89x on 25 Jan, 2006 22:01
• I got this number...
  
  
  DGK121
  GASKET KIT
  509464/37A
• #4 by fatmobile on 26 Jan, 2006 21:05
• My local bosch guy says the 121 has an o-ring for the aneroid.
   It also has a drive shaft seal that you don't need.
  
   On a NA injection pump, use the DGK 126 seal set. This set doesn't come with a drive shaft seal.
• #5 by Big Al Hailey on 16 Feb, 2006 20:48
• OK, so I have finally had time to get my pump off and everything else that is going to need to be replaced.  btw, I do not recommend trying to take off the cold start without removing the pump.  I did try at first, but it truely is nearly impossible without some sort of specialty tool.  I was really afraid that I might have started to strip the torx bolts.  They are not in too bad of shape though.
  
  I had a couple of quick questions:
  1) now that I have it off, I am contemplating performing the governor mod.  has anyone done this already, and did they really get much noticeable difference out of it?  Without the decrease in fuel flow at higher speeds, does this mod pose risk to the engine at all?
  
  2) I had a guy helping me one afternoon when I was at the point of removing the timing belt.  I know my cam is set at TDC, but am ever so slightly worried that the crak did not actual stop at the right spot. (I thought the guy knew more than I did, but it turned out he talked a lot of crap)  How can I check to be sure that it is at TDC?  Do I need to remove my oil pan and look up at it, or is there another method that would be easier to use?
  
  With any luck I willbe able to get my truck back out on the road this weekend.  The military has been nice enough to give us a long one.  Thanks for any help.
• #6 by bryanbryan89x on 19 Feb, 2006 07:26
• There is a plug on the bell housing. It is hexagon shapped, and with a diamater of approx 2 inches. you need to unscrew this plug (not only pull out the thing in the center of it) but unscrew the whole hexagon. Next have someone spin the crank shaft slowly.  Look down that hole (there is a triangle on the fly wheel and there is another triangle on the hole where you pulled the hexagon out at. Line these two up as best as you can.  Thats TDC for the crank.
  
  I also am experimenting with the Gov mod.  I did it a couple of nights ago.
  
  
  I just need to get some time and some nice weather to put my pump in.
• #7 by Big Al Hailey on 22 Feb, 2006 18:43
• Ok, I think I have everything where it needs to be to get this thing back on the road.  I know for a fact that the injection pump is not going to be in time.  When it was taken off, no marks were made as to its position and I know the guy helping me turned the sprocket a few turns and there is no telling how it was orriented w/ TDC.  Is there any way for me to tell approx where it would be to be in time so I can at least get to someone who can time it?  Will this cause any damage to the engine if way out of time?
  
  I am still waiting on a few hoses that I ordered online.  I have replaced almost every piece of coolant and fuel hose under the hood.  It desperately needed it.  With any luck another couple free days of good weather and this will be up and running finally.
• #8 by chrissev on 23 Feb, 2006 06:29
• Quote from: "Big Al Hailey"

  Ok, I think I have everything where it needs to be to get this thing back on the road.  I know for a fact that the injection pump is not going to be in time.  When it was taken off, no marks were made as to its position and I know the guy helping me turned the sprocket a few turns and there is no telling how it was orriented w/ TDC.  Is there any way for me to tell approx where it would be to be in time so I can at least get to someone who can time it?  Will this cause any damage to the engine if way out of time?
  
  I am still waiting on a few hoses that I ordered online.  I have replaced almost every piece of coolant and fuel hose under the hood.  It desperately needed it.  With any luck another couple free days of good weather and this will be up and running finally.

  
  
  Re: timing the pump, there is a notch at the top of the pump that you can line up with an indentation in the backing plate, when you put the pump back in.  When you do that it will be approximately in time (ie between 0.025 and 0.050 inches or so) and the engine will run.  It is not good to run the engine with the pump way out of time though and it will cause damage if you do this for too long.  It doesn't matter if your friend turned the pump pulley while it was out of the car.  You have to re-align everything anyway when you put the pump back in, so you can turn the pulley all you like.  You'll see what I mean when you put it all back together.  As far as orienting the pump with TDC, this is easy.  Find the hole in the pump pulley, and line it up with the hole in the backing plate.  Then put an appropriate sized bolt through to hold the pulley in place.  The pump will be approximately at TDC (though you need to push it forward a bit to get it right at TDC when you put the belt on)
• #9 by Giles@PerformanceDiesel on 23 Feb, 2006 17:48
• hi guys
  
  if u don't have a turbo and pump with LDA then do not do the
  part load governor mod. it will have the opposite effect of
  reducing the fuel at lower rpm and it will feel sluggish in the
  low rpm's .
  
  the rebuilt kit we use at the shop
  
  1 467 010 059
  
  if any one wants to know. there is no o'ring on the LDA diaphragm for
  the Boost control. there is an o'ring on the Altitude compensator pump
  that has a copper bellows inside though. this was introduced for high
  altitude applications only.
  
  Giles
• #10 by bryanbryan89x on 24 Feb, 2006 04:22
• Really?  I have a pump out of a 89 jetta with the altitude compenstator.  And I was planning on putting it in my 1981 rabbit with the part load spring mod.  but if it is going to have the opposite effect. haha I guess I wont then.
• #11 by fspGTD on 24 Feb, 2006 10:46
• I don't see how the governor mod could decrease fueling at low RPMs myself, either with or without LDA, assuming all the other adjustments (full load screw position, throttle shaft range of motion) are left unmodified.
  
  
  Replacing the intermediate spring with a shim (as it looks like bryanbryan89x has successfully done in the picture), would give no effect until the RPMs and spring tension increased to the point where the governor capsule started collapsing, at which point fueling could only be increased.
  
  Sure, if you backed off the full load screw to "undo" some of the increased fuel at higher RPMs resulting from the governor mod, it would cause decreased fueling at low RPMs.
  
  Hope this helps!
• #12 by Big Al Hailey on 25 Feb, 2006 17:47
• Hey everyone, wanted to thank you all for he help in my recent repairs.  I got my truck up and running finally today.  I have no more leaks and it seems to be running fine.
  
  I do still have one small problem and was hoping maybe someone had some advice.
  
  I am having trouble with the fuel supply to the injection pump.  I have heard both that there is no in line fuel supply pump and that there is indeed one.  Can any of you tell me if there is a supply pump or does the injection  pump serve both purposes?  I have found the supply pump online, but have been told by a couple of people that it is not standard on my tuck.
  
  I think I just need to replace that pump too if there is one.  I haven't taken  off the fuel tank yet though, mostly cause it is full, and I just don't really know.
  
  Thanks again.
• #13 by wyldman on 25 Feb, 2006 19:38
• There are no other lift pumps,except the one built into the injection pump.
  
  Maybe you have an air leak in one of the lines ? Plugged filter ?
• #14 by Big Al Hailey on 25 Feb, 2006 20:43
• A leak in one of the lines could be a good explination.  I noticed air bubbles in the hose that leads from the filter to the injection pump.  I replaced the filter at the same time as all of these repairs to eliminate that possiblilty so I guess I will try to hunt down the line.