Oil changes

[Vangruver]

I think he means his dad changes the filter, halfway through the 7,500 mi. interval.

-Todd

oh wow, there's no way I'm going 7500 miles/12000 km between oil changes.

maybe on a new clean diesel tdi, but not on my dirty diesel.

[RabbitJockey]

yes my dad changes his filter half way through.

[ToddA1]

oh wow, there's no way I'm going 7500 miles/12000 km between oil changes.

maybe on a new clean diesel tdi, but not on my dirty diesel.

Black oil doesn't mean the oil isn't doing its job.  Like I said before, there are a lot of contributing factors...

-Todd

[rs899]

It hot down here in hell (Florida).  I am running Mobil1 15w-50 for 6k miles.  But they just changed the formula and it's no longer CF rated, so I will find some other synthetic.  Rotella T6, most likely.

[ORCoaster]

maybe on a new clean diesel tdi, but not on my dirty diesel.

This is where I was coming from.  1981 vintage versus 2011.  Lots of wear, lots of crap in the oil.  Best insurance policy is early oil change is it not?  I also think about the compression of these engines compared to the gassers.  That has to factor into the potential wear and tear. 

And yes I agree that just because it is black doesn't mean it isn't doing the job.  Some diesel oils come black.  But for a boy raised on the black is not beautiful concept when it comes to oil I have to change it out when it is that bad.

[Dakotakid]

Very interesting topic and one I "struggle" with. Lately, I have been extending my intervals somewhat due to "economics." However, I clearly remember the work (even if you get a kick out of spinning a wrench, etc) of rebuilding my last 3 VW diesels (not to mention all the nickles and dimes....that quickly grew into $100 bills.....and a fair stack of THOSE), and those memories get me nervous and I budget the coins and time to "get er done" before the interval stretches much.

Something I miss being able to readily do, when I was living at the farm, is that I used to pour about 1/2 gallon of diesel through the engine after draining out the oil. On the farm, you could always use the contaminated fuel to burn the house trash or burn some tall dry weeds somewhere, etc., but living in town and now looking at MUCH more expensive "go juice," the belief that I can still practice this has changed. I used to wash a LOT of soot out of those oil passages/drains and out of the pan. Nowdays, I only have gravity to work with. And, to be frank, the bottoms of some of the oil pans aren't as flat as they were when they left the factory .

Never run out of sheet to worry about.......

[ToddA1]

This is where I was coming from.  1981 vintage versus 2011.  Lots of wear, lots of crap in the oil.  Best insurance policy is early oil change is it not?  I also think about the compression of these engines compared to the gassers.  That has to factor into the potential wear and tear. 

I think a heathy engine would be a healthy engine, no matter how old it is.  I'm not sure what you think is in your dirty oil, but if you're seeing metal or other contaminates, you've got bigger issues.  Get your oil tested... It could be cheap insurance that an oil change wouldn't solve. 

Changing the oil sooner definitely would be the best policy, but maybe not necessary.  You could change the fuel filter every 3k, but is it necessary?

Diesel rated oil is designed to cope with the extreme conditions that the engines produce.  There are a lot of added detergents and lubricating additives in there, such as ZDDP.  Although (most of) these oils are being deemed acceptable for gassers, I've been reading some conflicting info, but that's another topic.

Something I miss being able to readily do, when I was living at the farm, is that I used to pour about 1/2 gallon of diesel through the engine after draining out the oil.

A friend of mine would dump a quart of clean oil in after daring his oil.  I always thought he was wasting his time and money.  My logic was, if he wasn't pulling the valve cover off, the oil was only going down the nearest drain.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the diesel flushing.  If you think your engine is that contaminated, either change the oil and filter, or just the filter after 1k of driving, then go back to the normal schedule.  I used to do this to all used cars when I first got them.  They were gassers, but the oil would be very clean between changes....  no way you'll experience this on a diesel, without some type of bypass filter.

-todd

[rabbitman]

The filters in the Frantz would still require changing about every 3.5K, but I'll probably shell out the $25 per test, just to get an idea where I stand.
-Todd

haha, I had to laugh at the "filters" in the frantz, it's actually a roll of toilet paper......

I bought a "reconditioned" frantz setup for like $75. I called a dealer that I found online to ask some Qs and found out they sell used ones too. Waaaaay cheaper than new.

[ToddA1]

Yeah, it's pretty much all the filter element is.  I bought both of my NOS kits on Ebay....  I think I paid around $100 for one, and $75 for the other.  There's a part that I need to buy for both since the TP cores increased diameter...  maybe $5 each.

FWIW, this is the thread that I first read about Frantz, about 2 years ago.  Take note of the color (or lack of) of the oil on the dipstick @ 5k miles.  The lack of soot amazed me and made me research them.  This guy had 20K miles on the oil in one of his trucks!

http://www.cumminsforum.com/articles/articles/18/1/Anatomy-of-a-Frantz-toilet-paper-bypass-oil-filter/Page1.html

There are a ton of other threads out there about them.

-Todd

[Vangruver]

oh wow, there's no way I'm going 7500 miles/12000 km between oil changes.

maybe on a new clean diesel tdi, but not on my dirty diesel.

Black oil doesn't mean the oil isn't doing its job.  Like I said before, there are a lot of contributing factors...

-Todd

i completely understand the fundamentals of diesel oil and the characterstics of it's duties, but I normally stick to a routine schedule of 6k give or take, on conventional oil.

going beyond that to 10-12k is pretty ballsy. I just hit 5000km on my current oil now. and with the weather being warmer where I am, i am "considering" extending it another 1000 km or so.

That and I'd like to do an oil change, and a coolant flush/fill right after eachother.

[nathan_b]

because in combustion motors fuel gets into the oil, its a fact of life. Gasoline does not lubricate, diesel does. Therefore diesel oil loses less lubrication when contaminated with fuel than gas motors and can have a longer service life. Also why diesel motors just plain last longer.

the oil in a diesel never gets fuel contaminated in a properly working engine..

diesel oil gets more soot in it than anything else.. thats why you can change the oil on your diesel, and 5 minutes later with fresh oil its just as black as the oil you drained..

usually, no fuel gets in the lubrication oil. thats why diesels last so much longer. and the fact that the fuel isnt injected till TDC, so there is no solvent (fuel) washing the lubrication off the cylinder walls all the time..

and i kinda feel retarded saying this, but you CAN drive a VW 10k miles between oil changes. i just did it.

would i ever do it again? not a snow balls chance in hell.. im not even sure what that was that i drained out of my engine, but it was not oil. it was more like coal sludge. i really feel like an idiot for neglecting my engine for 6k miles, but i was broke, and things needed to get done..

anyways, these engines will run with completely worn out oil just fine.. i just wouldnt suggest it..

3 things are inside a running motor, fuel, air and oil: diesel soot is not air, or oil, so it MUST be fuel. When you romp on it, what comes out the tail pipe, black soot, or unburnt fuel). I see no reason why an idi with tdi oil can't run 5k (1/2 of a tdi interval). Especially when people are putting 20k on oil (with monitoring systems) in europe in tdis. It's alll the motor, the person, the climate. My 2.0 aba with 5w40 502.00+ and a diesel/1.8t filter can go like 8k before the oil starts being remotely dark on the dipstick.

Not even to consider: how many idi's are retired because of worn bearings or cylinder walls (within reasonable service life ex. 200k). What I am saying is: the point of oil changes is to prevent wear, when wear is rarely the case for motor failure. basically myke_w put it best stating: "if you have oil in your motor, registering your dipstick, you are ahead of the game.."

haha

[clbanman]

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=19157.15

Keep in mind that what makes the oil look black to our eyes is particulates suspended in the oil.   No matter how abrasive they are, they definitely do not lubricate like oil, so they accelerate wear to some extent.   That extent varies based on the particulate composition.   When oil sampling is done, the two most common methods are systems that use a laser to count the amount of restriction to the passage of the light through the oil to calculate particle size and quantity or a patch method (using a microscope and visual comparison with baseline samples.   The patch method is what has to be used on diesel engine oil as all that soot prevents the laser system from working.   What we see with our eyes is far beyond any ISO count level that would be commonly accepted.   An ISO particle count level of 26/20/18 for example would greatly accelerate wear and yet would not look like a problem to the naked eye at all.

As far as changing the oil, with proper filtration and maintenance of the oil properties, the change is not required at all.   Oil is not generally changed on diesel locomotives.   They do a lot of filtration, including bypass filtration.   They also do a lot of oil analysis to ensure that they maintain the desired lubrication and protection properties.   They also do a very good job of ensuring that external contaminants don't enter the engines.   However, for most of us, it is far simpler to just change the oil.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of the engines you hear of that achieved 1,000,000 miles or some such number also mention that they change the oil far more frequently than most people would consider necessary.   "Pay me now or pay me later."   

[trav1856]

Bentley book says 10k between oil changes

[8v-of-fury]

The Bentley ratings are most likely meant for the proper oil and filter to be used. With them in place I would not fear 10k

[745 turbogreasel]

To me the 1.5-2.0 VW  is pretty suspect in the oil capacity department to start with.