AAZ Dowel Crank fix now no start - page 2 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• #15 by ORCoaster on 08 May, 2011 11:04
• If it starts and smokes, White smoke?  then you have to be close.  White smoke is a condition of retarded timing I think.  So you may just need to fire it up and rotate the pump towards the engine block.  Might take a couple of trials.  I can only get so much advance or retard on the pump before I have to shut it off, loosen the nuts holding the fuel pipes to the back of the pump head and tighten again.  That takes the torque off the system and I can rotate it some more.  When the timing is at the point I want it. I go back and loosen/tighten the nuts on the head again.  Trying to have no tension to the feed pipes going to the injectors.
• #16 by stugots on 08 May, 2011 11:10
• Quote from: ORCoaster on 08 May, 2011 11:04

  If it starts and smokes, White smoke?  then you have to be close.  White smoke is a condition of retarded timing I think.  So you may just need to fire it up and rotate the pump towards the engine block.  Might take a couple of trials.  I can only get so much advance or retard on the pump before I have to shut it off, loosen the nuts holding the fuel pipes to the back of the pump head and tighten again.  That takes the torque off the system and I can rotate it some more.  When the timing is at the point I want it. I go back and loosen/tighten the nuts on the head again.  Trying to have no tension to the feed pipes going to the injectors.
  

  
  Thanks for the reply, when you say "fire it up and rotate the pump"?  not sure what you mean..  my old IP use to have a screw to adjust, now for some reason my pump does not have that screw in the back.. if that is what you mean
• #17 by R.O.R-2.0 on 08 May, 2011 11:14
• Quote from: stugots on 08 May, 2011 11:10

  Quote from: ORCoaster on 08 May, 2011 11:04

  If it starts and smokes, White smoke?  then you have to be close.  White smoke is a condition of retarded timing I think.  So you may just need to fire it up and rotate the pump towards the engine block.  Might take a couple of trials.  I can only get so much advance or retard on the pump before I have to shut it off, loosen the nuts holding the fuel pipes to the back of the pump head and tighten again.  That takes the torque off the system and I can rotate it some more.  When the timing is at the point I want it. I go back and loosen/tighten the nuts on the head again.  Trying to have no tension to the feed pipes going to the injectors.
  

  
  Thanks for the reply, when you say "fire it up and rotate the pump"?  not sure what you mean..  my old IP use to have a screw to adjust, now for some reason my pump does not have that screw in the back.. if that is what you mean
  

  
  that would be the fuel screw you are talking about, and both pumps have them, they gotta, no way around it..
  
  if it starts, and smokes white, it may be low compression too (bent valves) or retarded timing (from not knowing how/not using the right procedure)
  
  if you get it running, and move the pump towards the engine till it sounds like a gunnysack full of hammers, thats too far, back the pump up a tad bit..
  
  or, with it shut off, draw a pencil line on the pump body and pump bracket so they match up. then move the pump half the width of the pencil line, and tighten it back up. do that until it becomes harder to start, then back it off a half pencil line towards the radiator..
• #18 by stugots on 08 May, 2011 11:32
• Quote from: R.O.R-2.0 on 08 May, 2011 11:14

  Quote from: stugots on 08 May, 2011 11:10

  Quote from: ORCoaster on 08 May, 2011 11:04

  If it starts and smokes, White smoke?  then you have to be close.  White smoke is a condition of retarded timing I think.  So you may just need to fire it up and rotate the pump towards the engine block.  Might take a couple of trials.  I can only get so much advance or retard on the pump before I have to shut it off, loosen the nuts holding the fuel pipes to the back of the pump head and tighten again.  That takes the torque off the system and I can rotate it some more.  When the timing is at the point I want it. I go back and loosen/tighten the nuts on the head again.  Trying to have no tension to the feed pipes going to the injectors.
  

  
  Thanks for the reply, when you say "fire it up and rotate the pump"?  not sure what you mean..  my old IP use to have a screw to adjust, now for some reason my pump does not have that screw in the back.. if that is what you mean
  

  
  that would be the fuel screw you are talking about, and both pumps have them, they gotta, no way around it..
  
  if it starts, and smokes white, it may be low compression too (bent valves) or retarded timing (from not knowing how/not using the right procedure)
  
  if you get it running, and move the pump towards the engine till it sounds like a gunnysack full of hammers, thats too far, back the pump up a tad bit..
  
  or, with it shut off, draw a pencil line on the pump body and pump bracket so they match up. then move the pump half the width of the pencil line, and tighten it back up. do that until it becomes harder to start, then back it off a half pencil line towards the radiator..
  

  
  would you have a picture of the fuel screw?
  
  
  
• #19 by stugots on 08 May, 2011 16:53
• Quote from: libbybapa on 08 May, 2011 13:49

  I haven't used one of the two piece sprockets (like what you have - the two pieces are the sprocket part and the hub it bolts to), but my understanding is that w/ the 2-piece sprocket you don't use a dial indicator.  You place the crank at TDC, loosen the bolts that attach the sprocket to the hub, install the pin in the sprocket, tighten the bolts, remove the pin, done.  
  

  
  
  Ok, now I am getting some where.  
• #20 by stugots on 08 May, 2011 17:42
• Quote from: stugots on 08 May, 2011 16:53

  Quote from: libbybapa on 08 May, 2011 13:49

  I haven't used one of the two piece sprockets (like what you have - the two pieces are the sprocket part and the hub it bolts to), but my understanding is that w/ the 2-piece sprocket you don't use a dial indicator.  You place the crank at TDC, loosen the bolts that attach the sprocket to the hub, install the pin in the sprocket, tighten the bolts, remove the pin, done.  
  

  
  
  
  
  

  
  I found a great write up, props to Vince.
  
  Vincent Waldon:
  If your pump mounting holes aren't elongated then you probably have the 2-piece IP sprocket with 1 central bolt and three smaller ones around the outside?
  
  If not... hmmmmm.... somethings wrong... you gotta have one or the other.
  
  If so, your pump is  the later version of the AAZ that is pre-timed... no dial indicator required.  You'll see a slot in the top of the pulley where a 6-7mm drill bit will go into a hole in the pump body to set the correct timing.
  If you look closely at the big nut in the centre of the pump sprocket you should see the classic yellow paint indicating a calibration adjustment.    YUP mine is marked with yellow.!!!!
  
  
  
  Basically you:
  
  - get everything else locked at TDC
  - loosen the small bolts around the outside of the IP sprocket
  - gently rotate the big bolt in the centre until the locking drill bit goes into the hole
  - tighten down the 3 smaller bolts
  
  Done like dinner!
  
  Guess its just that easy....
  
  ********One more question about the flywheel being at proper TDC.  after spinning the flywheel a few times I noticed there are 2 notches (rectangular) a few degrees apart and between the notches there is a slit.  There are no arrows or zero's or anything else that would tell me that is TDC other than the 3 marks mentioned.  Which mark to I use??
  
  Thank you
• #21 by stugots on 14 May, 2011 06:08
• Just to update.
  
  My AAZ starts up and no smoke, loads of power and I am a happy camper.
  
  Thank you for all your help.   
  
  
• #22 by Otis2 on 14 May, 2011 21:09
• Quote from: stugots on 08 May, 2011 17:42

  Basically you:
  
  - get everything else locked at TDC
  - loosen the small bolts around the outside of the IP sprocket
  - gently rotate the big bolt in the centre until the locking drill bit goes into the hole
  - tighten down the 3 smaller bolts
  
  Done like dinner!
  
  Guess its just that easy....
  

  
  Here's a photo of the 2-piece sprocket on my IP (taken through the licence plate door of my Vanagon).
  
  No yellow paint, but I guess that's because it's a Giles rebuild, and he didn't repaint it.  
  
  I have not had to time this engine yet, but from what you are saying, I wouldn't need a dial gauge, correct?  Just rotate the pump until that slot hits a hole for a 6 mm drill bit, and pin it there?
  
  Where is the hole, relative to the numbers on a clock face?  eg.  12:00 high?
  
  
• #23 by ORCoaster on 14 May, 2011 21:24
• The OP said his was at the high noon position yours is pictured more like 7:00.  Why didn't all IP's come like this?  Seems like the most idiot proof timing set up ever.  No playing around with advance or retard of any sort.  Good to hear yours is flying again.