Two 1.6L mech head rebuild questions

[Rock3tman]

1)  I had identified all of my lifters as to which position they were in originally when I tore it down; the machine shop has mixed them all up.   What should I do for reassembly?  There's 221K on engine, never been opened up before, and very little wear showing on sides of lifters and on cam lobes.

2)  I've got the new prechambers that are slightly oversize - - what's the recommendations for installation, ie. heating the head/freezing the prechambers, peening procedures, or?   

thx.

[Quantum TD]

As far as the lifters go, it may be a moot point. If you had the valve seats cut or the valves ground, you will need to check the valve clearance no matter what. Most shops are too stupid to realize that when you cut the seats/grind the valves, you must check the valve stem projection into the lifter bore both before AND after the valve work. Then, if you give a crap about your customer, you should grind the tips of the valve stems down so to the original specs so they don't have to buy an array of valve shims to get the clearance.

A shop down here in TN did a really nice job on a head for a friend. They put the head on, but there was no compression. Turns out the shims were keeping all the valves open.

As for the prechambers. Good luck on that one.

[Rock3tman]

The valve seats looked good and I'm assuming that with all new guides and valves (including sodium exhaust for turbo) just a standard valve seat grind is in order.

any consensus on amount of interference in thousands that I should shoot for between the  prechamber inserts and head?

[sdwarf36]

As far as the lifters go, it may be a moot point. If you had the valve seats cut or the valves ground, you will need to check the valve clearance no matter what. Most shops are too stupid to realize that when you cut the seats/grind the valves, you must check the valve stem projection into the lifter bore both before AND after the valve work. Then, if you give a crap about your customer, you should grind the tips of the valve stems down so to the original specs so they don't have to buy an array of valve shims to get the clearance.

A shop down here in TN did a really nice job on a head for a friend. They put the head on, but there was no compression. Turns out the shims were keeping all the valves open.

As for the prechambers. Good luck on that one.

Again with the machine shop bashing!  What the hell is it with this site?? I go to a dozen different forums for the various cars/bikes/racecar I own-and this one--and ONLY this one-- automatically start bashing machine shops any time someone asks a boring or valve job question!!    People around this site seem to think that because they replaced a head gasket once , they know more than a shop that's been around for 30 years! How come noone in here has ever heard of-or mention a bad-plumber-body shop-bakery?? Its just all machine shops that don't know what they are doing.

[Alcaid]

Machine shop did nothing wrong, you should ALWAYS measure and adjust valve clearance on a mech head before putting it in after a valve job (and as part of your maintainance down the road). It's not the valves that should be adjusted as Quantum TD imposes, these shims comes in different thicknesses for a reason....

[theman53]

As far as the lifters go, it may be a moot point. If you had the valve seats cut or the valves ground, you will need to check the valve clearance no matter what. Most shops are too stupid to realize that when you cut the seats/grind the valves, you must check the valve stem projection into the lifter bore both before AND after the valve work. Then, if you give a crap about your customer, you should grind the tips of the valve stems down so to the original specs so they don't have to buy an array of valve shims to get the clearance.

A shop down here in TN did a really nice job on a head for a friend. They put the head on, but there was no compression. Turns out the shims were keeping all the valves open.

As for the prechambers. Good luck on that one.

Again with the machine shop bashing!  What the hell is it with this site?? I go to a dozen different forums for the various cars/bikes/racecar I own-and this one--and ONLY this one-- automatically start bashing machine shops any time someone asks a boring or valve job question!!    People around this site seem to think that because they replaced a head gasket once , they know more than a shop that's been around for 30 years! How come noone in here has ever heard of-or mention a bad-plumber-body shop-bakery?? Its just all machine shops that don't know what they are doing.

Man you need to get your machine shop in order...Eveybody I know that doesn't have a problem would laugh at this post so you must have a problem. If not then please refrain from invading this guys post with non information. To me it is more disruptive than someone "machine shop bashing"

1. I would check all the valve clearances and readjust as needed. With that many miles you might opt for new hardware anyhow.
2. I would see what it measures when you heat the head and freeze the prechambers before assembling. Like a dry run. If you are .001 too tight it will not be a fun day. If they are .003" or more I would see if a qualified shop would recommend.

[trav1856]

As far as the lifters go, it may be a moot point. If you had the valve seats cut or the valves ground, you will need to check the valve clearance no matter what. Most shops are too stupid to realize that when you cut the seats/grind the valves, you must check the valve stem projection into the lifter bore both before AND after the valve work. Then, if you give a crap about your customer, you should grind the tips of the valve stems down so to the original specs so they don't have to buy an array of valve shims to get the clearance.

A shop down here in TN did a really nice job on a head for a friend. They put the head on, but there was no compression. Turns out the shims were keeping all the valves open.

As for the prechambers. Good luck on that one.

Again with the machine shop bashing!  What the hell is it with this site?? I go to a dozen different forums for the various cars/bikes/racecar I own-and this one--and ONLY this one-- automatically start bashing machine shops any time someone asks a boring or valve job question!!    People around this site seem to think that because they replaced a head gasket once , they know more than a shop that's been around for 30 years! How come noone in here has ever heard of-or mention a bad-plumber-body shop-bakery?? Its just all machine shops that don't know what they are doing.

Man you need to get your machine shop in order...Eveybody I know that doesn't have a problem would laugh at this post so you must have a problem. If not then please refrain from invading this guys post with non information. To me it is more disruptive than someone "machine shop bashing"

1. I would check all the valve clearances and readjust as needed. With that many miles you might opt for new hardware anyhow.
2. I would see what it measures when you heat the head and freeze the prechambers before assembling. Like a dry run. If you are .001 too tight it will not be a fun day. If they are .003" or more I would see if a qualified shop would recommend.

To me someone trying to meta-moderate is more disruptive than the previous two posts and adds nothing to the conversation other than trying to make yourself look superior.

<now here's where you bash me for having a low post count, or have some other smart quip up your sleeve.>

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Quantum TD was right in his suggestion of grinding valve ends. Saves money, and time, Also saves having spare set of shims that won't be the size you want in the future.
The valves will get replaced in the future anyhow, if the engine survives long enough.

I wouldn't replace the inserts unless there was a good reason for doing so, like severely cracked.

Digs at machine shops can be well warranted, although not always the case, due to the loss of knowledge [on average] because of the currently employed 'part swappers'  have replaced the retired part repairers, especially at the Authorized dealerships.
Independant apprenticeship served engineers are a dying breed IMO.

Mk2 dieselheads are probably remnants of hippies, aren't we?

[theman53]

Like I said "to me"
and again, just seems dumb to post with nothing to offer the original poster...just like this post=retarded

[sdwarf36]

 Sorry-I came in to offer advice if I could or learn if i couldn't-to once again find I was a leper. 
 All efforts should be taken to keep everything in order, its not too bad if the lifters get swapped. They are machined to a close tolerence-and the cam hits the shim-the buckets are supposed to rotate in the head-so look for and vertical scratches showing if it isn't.
 Good question on the press of the chambers-.001? seems what mine went in with.Tighter than that you'd want to put them in a head that was heated up.You hear of people taking heads off + they fell out-and were still running. I'm wondering if its being held in more with the headgasket+ block than press. There is (was?) a tool for grinding the cups for thickness-i've never seen one.
 I agree with keeping your original ones if the aren't cracked too bad.

[Rock3tman]

I'll try and post some photos tomorrow, but three of my four inserts were cracked a good 3/16-1/4"...certainly bigger that the hairline cracks between valves.  My lifters do have some very, very, very light vertical wear marks.   I guess I'll have them mike'd and see the variations and then compare to the lifter bores.   If too far different, i guess new lifters are in order.

[clarkrep]

Maybe this will help?
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=26029.0
I would say .001-.002"  would be as tight as you should go. If you read the link he had some deformation after pressing them in. 
Also, in my experience press fitting two different diameters at a time is an unnecessary pain. Just an opinion and let us know how it goes.
Aaron