Author Topic: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.  (Read 21246 times)

April 22, 2011, 12:41:46 pm

vdubspeed

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Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« on: April 22, 2011, 12:41:46 pm »
Well the time has come for me to boost a diesel. I've boosted 8Vs, 16Vs, 20Vs, etc but haven't played with diesels due to a lack of experience.

I've been daily driving my diesel swapped GTI since last fall and am ready to upgrade. I did a TDI swap into a mk1 for a friend a couple months back and scored a few turbo pieces for myself. One such thing I scored was a late mk3 turbo and exhaust mani. Since I'm a broke dubber with no job currently this is ALL on a budget and I will make something before I buy ANYTHING.

That being said...here's the platform:


Here is the current engine bay. A SOLID running 1.6. It will be getting removed for a 1.5 that I used to drive but pulled for the current 1.6. The donor 1.5 was a good runner too. It actually came out of a field and sat for 18 years.

Current bay:


Donor engine video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71LW2fjwKHY

So anyway...the 1.5 is on a stand and has been in the corner of my garage for a few months. Today I bolted on the manifold and clocked the compressor housing. Of course there was no way to mount the diaphragm for the internal wastegate so I built a quick bracket from some angle iron and some old k03 wastegate steel.


After that I started in on building an oil return hose. What I did was take a new beetle k03 return and hack it off at the flex section. I welded on a bung to accept a small line hose, attached that to some generic AN stainless line and the bottom section is something from a new beetle too. I still have to snatch a larger capacity pan from out back and will weld the nut onto it for the bottom to bolt up too. Must say it came together pretty good for just using junk.


And that's where I left off. I REALLY need to find an exhaust flange for this exhaust housing. I cannot for the life of me find just the flange. Prothe sells a downpipe but it inhibits the flow of the internal wastegate valve. I want to built a downpipe that doesn't just block the flap when it opens. Further more I need an intake manifold BAD. My friend gave me a mk1 cabby gasser intake but the runners hit the place where I plan to mount the EGT. More to follow...

Jason


Reply #1April 22, 2011, 12:56:23 pm

trav1856

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 12:56:23 pm »
FIRST.....


keep 'em comin' this is good stuff, Maynard. ;-)
1981 Rabbit Diesel
1981 Cabriolet

Reply #2April 22, 2011, 01:05:14 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 01:05:14 pm »
your prolly gonna want to cut the EGR port off the turbo, then you can run a gasser intake mani.. they are alot better than the stock turbo mani..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #3April 22, 2011, 01:41:11 pm

vdubspeed

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 01:41:11 pm »
see that is counter productive.
1. I already have this manifold and it works fine. Also the EGR runner is a great place for the EGT sensor.
2. a gasser manifold may be better...but boost is boost. Just because cylinder 2/3 are favored...does not mean equal boost is not being distributed and in the grand scheme of things...this is an old POS 1.5.
3. Imagine there is 10psi in an intake, when cylinder 1 intake valve opens...gets all the boost, and so on and so on.

A gasser manifold may be the optimum situation but I think a TDI manifold will be easier, cheaper, and won't make me cut a perfect exhaust manifold that will require nickel welding since it's cast.

Reply #4April 22, 2011, 02:01:30 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 02:01:30 pm »
see that is counter productive.
1. I already have this manifold and it works fine. Also the EGR runner is a great place for the EGT sensor.
2. a gasser manifold may be better...but boost is boost. Just because cylinder 2/3 are favored...does not mean equal boost is not being distributed and in the grand scheme of things...this is an old POS 1.5.
3. Imagine there is 10psi in an intake, when cylinder 1 intake valve opens...gets all the boost, and so on and so on.

A gasser manifold may be the optimum situation but I think a TDI manifold will be easier, cheaper, and won't make me cut a perfect exhaust manifold that will require nickel welding since it's cast.

lol, you seem like you need NO HELP at all. you must have built a few of these already?

ive been there, done that.. got the tee-shirt. the gasser intake is a great upgrade. makes more torque on the bottom end. keeps cylinders 1 & 4 from getting too hot also. again, been there, done that. ive blown up a 1.5 from boost. and the intake manifold had a bit to do with it blowing up.

you can weld cast iron with mild steel wire. i did on my VNT turbo, cut the EGR port off, welded it closed, then drilled and tapped my welding for an EGT probe. its not a straight shot into the manifold thru the EGR port.. but if you hack most of it off, it makes placing the probe much easier. lol, should tell my turbo manifold that it needs to be welded with nickel rod.. cause it got welded with mild steel wire from a millermatic 250, and its been holding up great for years..

trust me, just because the intake has a box style plenum, does not mean it distributes the air evenly. there have been counltess threads about how the TD manifolds suck because they bias the center cylinders soo bad.. cyls 1 & 4 DO GET HOTTER then the center cylinders. the 1.5 i boosted, you could see that the outter pistons were more eroded than the center pistons.. that manifold does make a difference in air flow.

anyways, they were just suggestions, do it how you want, its your engine. i just know that i would be using a gasser intake because it makes things soo much easier. plus, it looks cool. and it works way better. you can feel the difference, just from replacing the intake manifold. and another thing, the RIGHT ANGLE ports on the intake manifold, they flow like hell..

also, you want the EGT probe in the stream of exhaust gasses, not up in a port like how you would install it in the EGR port.. so more than likely, even if you do put the probe in that port, its probably not going to read the correct temperature, its probably gonna read colder than it actually is..

either way tho, its your build, im not gonna twist your arm and make you build yours like i built mine, although you would thank me for twisting it after you got it finished and noticed the difference! lol..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #5April 22, 2011, 02:19:03 pm

vdubspeed

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 02:19:03 pm »
I'll bite. Now your miller is a 250 so you have way more amps. I have a Hobart 140. Just a little 110 unit. I use a CO/Argon mix with straight steel wire. I guess I could experiment on all old exhaust mani's I have out back. Just worried about cracking.

I don't like the mk1 gasser intake I have though. I would rather have a mk2 unit see so the intake is on the passenger side. I don't plan to run an intercooler so....

Anyway...we shall see.

Thanks for the input.

Jason

Reply #6April 22, 2011, 02:27:22 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 02:27:22 pm »
I'll bite. Now your miller is a 250 so you have way more amps. I have a Hobart 140. Just a little 110 unit. I use a CO/Argon mix with straight steel wire. I guess I could experiment on all old exhaust mani's I have out back. Just worried about cracking.

I don't like the mk1 gasser intake I have though. I would rather have a mk2 unit see so the intake is on the passenger side. I don't plan to run an intercooler so....

Anyway...we shall see.

Thanks for the input.

Jason

lol, yea, your hobart wont do it.. not enough heat to dig in deep enough. maybe tho! its worth a try. i know my turbo is still sealed, and i didnt pre-heat it or let it cool down super slow or anything.. maybe i just got lucky, who knows. i weld with straight argon. our welder is mostly used for aluminum.

and intakes, mk2 unit is better than the mk1 unit anyways.. it has bigger runners. ive been running a mk2 gasser intake since i blew up my first 1.5 and have had ZERO problems with it. only intake better than the mk2 unit, is the G60 unit, or fab up a custom one.
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #7April 22, 2011, 02:46:57 pm

vdubspeed

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 02:46:57 pm »
Well I took the exhaust mani welding for a test drive. I think it will work...enough. I turned up my heat to the max and welded some scrap steel to the exhaust mani. It was kinda tough because the mani was soaking up the heat and when I would move to the steel it would melt instantly. When I do the manifold I will preheat for sure.

BUT...I'm going to pull the trigger and chop the manifold. I can get a mk2 intake for free and have all the crap to make the intake plumbing.

I did get the scrap with a hammer while it was still warm and after a few hard hits it cracked. The probe will NEVER have any stress on it so I think the weld will be fine if I preheat and just cake it with steel :)

Well here's a picture of the experiment. Whatcha think?


Thanks again for the input glegor.

Jason

Reply #8April 22, 2011, 07:03:22 pm

vdubspeed

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 07:03:22 pm »
the return pipe is fine. The exit from the center cartridge is only 1/2inch on the turbo but the k03 outlet is massive at like 7/8. I pull it back down to about 1/2 at the AN line and it stays that way until it enters the pan.

Reply #9April 22, 2011, 09:32:54 pm

rabbitman

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2011, 09:32:54 pm »
I brazed an exhaust mani with not problems.

X2 on putting the egt probe somewhere other than the egr port!
'82 Rabbit, I put on a euro vnt-15, 2.25" DP, 2.5" exhaust, the result.....it whistled.

I removed the turbo, made a toilet bowl 2.5" DP, the result....it was deafening. Now it has a homemade muffler up front and a thrush in the rear, the result.....less loud.
Watch: AGENDA, GRINDING AMERICA DOWN

Reply #10April 23, 2011, 09:21:18 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 09:21:18 am »
I brazed an exhaust mani with not problems.

X2 on putting the egt probe somewhere other than the egr port!

only reason i drilled my EGR port for an EGT probe, was because the VNT egr ports are shaped differently, and you can get right down into the gas stream from the EGR port on a VNT.. i cut the EGR flange off to clear the intake manifold more than anything..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #11April 25, 2011, 05:22:20 pm

vdubspeed

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2011, 05:22:20 pm »
Well I got the oil feed line built and it's right in line with my budget build.

I took a new beetle. 1.8t feed line I had and chopped off the back half right before the flex. Then I dug out the fitting from any mk1 gasser with a WUR and used the larger fitting from the WUR. I cut the nipple off and drilled the hole a little larger before welding it to the new beetle feed.

When it was all said and done I have a feed line that is free plus it hugs the block and looks the part (simplistic)

I ended up going with a Spearco manifold thanks to Travis and plan to cut/weld the EGR port in a few days. Should have most of the fab work minus the downpipe done pretty soon.

Regards,

Jason


Reply #12April 25, 2011, 06:38:41 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2011, 06:38:41 pm »
will the turbo be provided with sufficient oil and or pressure being fed from that port on the head? It is the last spot to see oil, and receives the lowest oil pressure of the system when warm ? I mean Hellsyeah to fabrication, but will it work properly?

Reply #13April 25, 2011, 06:47:59 pm

nathan_b

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2011, 06:47:59 pm »
I think it will be fine. Minimum is going to be what, 10psi? it doesn't take much oil and 10psi is a lot.

Pull your oil pressure sensor out and start her up and then doubt that there will be sufficient oiling...
81 caddy frankentd 02a, 99.9 tdi jetta, 00 golf

Reply #14April 25, 2011, 07:11:35 pm

vdubspeed

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Re: Redneck takes an NA motor and slaps on a turbo.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2011, 07:11:35 pm »
been running a 16vT on head oil feed for 6 years and the turbo is fine. Hell...VW put the oil pressure senders there in some models so obviously it gets enough pressure to keep the gauges pegged(think mk1 cabiolet that I know for a fact puts the VDO sender there from the factory)

Anyway...I ain't worried about it. In fact...I worry that it's to much oil. All my other turbo builds run restrictors with oil comin from the head or the oil filter piece.

Wish the diesel wasn't my daily. I still have my 20vT rabbit that did daily service for a few years that I can jump in but I will miss the diesel when it has to come off the road for the motor swap and final fabrication.