Forward-backward play in front wheel. opinions?

[A Guy]

Morning group.
What would cause my drivers side front wheel to have play front and back (not side to side).  I expect this is why I get left - right movement in the steering wheel when I accelerate or decelerate.  
Thanks.
Greg

[BlackTieTD]

cv joint?

[A Guy]

Thanks.
Should I be looking at doing other work while I do that? I.E. Both sides,  Tie rod end etc.

[fspGTD]

A CV joint does not position the wheel, so I don't believe it could be the cause.

I've seen excessive front-back play of a front wheel in a 1995 Passat.  It drove funny, as the wheel would move everytime the wheel transitioned from acceleration to braking, etc.

What I did to measure the play of the wheel was jacked up the corner of the car, grabbed the wheel, and see how much I could move it fore-back.  It should be very tight but moved somewhere in the realm of 1"!  While moving the wheel, watch the rear a-arm connection to the body to see if that is moving around.  The cause of the Passat's wheel movement was a torn rear rubber a-arm bushing.  The bushing is designed so that a part of it twists as the wheel moves up and down.  With age and lots of flex cycles, the rubber oxidizes and twears where it twists and a torn bushing results in uncontrolled movment of the wheel fore-aft by around 1".

I think your A2 Golf uses a similar design of rear a-arm bushing (if not the same part number!), so if your car sounds to have similar symptoms, check out your rear a-arm bushings.

If one's torn, you should replace both on each side, since it's just a matter of time until the other one goes.

[mpg]

what he said^^^ a-arm/control arm bushings. I had this same problem. I thought of cv joints at first, but it was just the bushings. I'd get polyurethane ones, since the OEM ones wear fast, especially if you have a lowered vehicle.

[A Guy]

I should qualify a bit I think.
When the drivers side is in the air, assuming the neurtal (current) possition of the tire is 12 o'clock.  There is the wheel play from 1:30- 10:30.  
That being said When the wheel is on the ground I can grab each side of the tire and move it froward and backward about and inch each way.  THis later test makes sence to be a bushing and would cause steering wheel feedback when accelerating and decelerating sharply.  What about the play mentioned above?  Could it be CV and bushings?  There is no clicking when I fully turn the wheels either way and drive in a circle so I'm stumped.  
Help please.
Greg

[fspGTD]

The fact you can move it foreward and backward an inch points to rear a-arm bushings.  I'm not sure I'd recommend polyurethane or not for this joint, because the way the bushing is designed, it "deep flexes" when the suspension moves up and down, it doesn't slide.  Stiff poly works well in reducing compliance while easily (with some lubrication) allowing sliding.  But considering how hard the poly is, I think it wouldn't hold out very long in a deep flexing application like this one.  Stiff poly here might also bind up your suspension.  I think rubber like the OEM bushing will be more durable, but rubber does oxidize and loose resiliency after many years, or some kinds very quickly when saturated with oil.  The only maintenance free solution pretty much guaranteed to never fail would be a spherical bearing.

[A Guy]

Thanks.

This makes sence as the drivers side of the engine and underside of the car is a little oil-soaked right now as a result of a quick blow-by fix.  The other side is fine.  I expect they are probably original to the car.  
Why though, does the wheel on the same side have rotational play from 10:30-1:30?

Hopefully this bushing will hold out while I scrounge up some cash for a rebuild.  While the engine is out I will do the bushings on both sides.  
Out.
Greg

[fspGTD]

10:30-1:30 does seem like a lot of rotational slop, but I would question if you are able to accurately measure this with the torn a-arm bushing allowing the wheel to move around.  I would replace both a-arm bushings and then re-test the rotational slop afterwards, if it's got you concerned.

Certainly it is normal for a CV joint to have some slop in it - even brand new I believe they are engineered with cold clearances between the balls and tracks so that when they heat up after being driven hard and the metal expands, things don't seize up.  I would fully expect to see on a perfectly normal FWD drivetrain rotational slop in the area of 11:30-12:30 for example.  I will admit 10:30-1:30 does seem a little sloppy, but how sure are you you measured that correctly with the torn a-arm bushing, and if the boots are all in tact and the CVs aren't making noises, would you really replace them just because they are a little sloppy?  The slop does not effect braking performance.  It should only effect the car's performance during the transition from acceleration to engine braking and vice versa.

Personally I just don't see why you'd want to replace a CV joint unless its rubber boot was torn or if it was making noise.  Unless you had a really cherry of a car that would just bother you if you knew something wasn't perfect or brand new on it.

Remember to keep that oil and diesel off your rubber parts if you want them to last guys!  Good luck Greg.

[A Guy]

I definitely don't want to do more than I "need" to.  I'll do the a-arm bushings and see where we go from there.  I never realised oil was not only sh*t for the environment.  It's not good for rubber parts.    I thought worst case...Drivers side of the car won't rust out w/all the damn salt they throw around here.
Thanks again.  
Out.

[Kevin L]

A Guy

I have replaced too many a/arm bushing (oil undercoating to prevent the salt gremlins) and will never use the stock rubber ones again. The urathane kit  is the only way too go, you will not beleive the difference in how tight it handels after the upgrade.

Put the car up on stands and pry the a/arms forward and back while watching the "hockey puck" bushing for excessive play. this is the one that seems to go first.
Let me know how it goes.

Kevin L

[A Guy]

Ok
I just p/u new bushings, bolts and sleeves.  I plan on doing this work on Monday.  Are these things tough to get out?  Can anyone offer up some suggestions on making it as efficient as possible?  To I need to lub anything?  
Thanks in advance.  
Greg

[A Guy]

:?
I tried last night to replace the bushings...not so easy-should have been.  The replacements I got are rubber in the middle with metal around the outside and in the middle.  The one that came out was just rubber.  It looks like the metal around the old bushing has been mated to the A arm and it's still there.  I thought I'd just pull the bolt - give a pry with a bar and slip the new one in and start drink'n.  So much for that.  
Do I have to remove the arm or another bolt?  I need advice here because she's even sloppier since I removed and reinstalled the old one.  
Looks like I'm going to have to break the bank and pay full pop for a bentley.
TIA
OUT!
Greg

[fspGTD]

Greg - this is the bushing you are dealing with - correct?


The outer metal sleeve pretty clearly suggests it needs to be pressed out/in of the a-arm.  Removing the a-arm from the car would make it a lot easier (then press new bushing in with a vice.)  The old bushing can be probably be either hacksawed out or pressed out.

The new bushing IIRC is supposed to be installed in a certain correct orientation pointing to the front of the car.  Bentley shows the way.

When removing the a-arm, to maintain the alignment settings, leave the balljoint connected to the a-arm as that sets the toe and it also effects the camber.  Just separate the balljoint from the steering knuckle.  That way maybe you can get by without needing the front end re-aligned afterwards.  Good luck.

[A Guy]

Damn!  
I didn't think I'd have to remove the A arm.  I really need a Bentley.  this is getting crazy.  
I tried to bang out the metal part that was left behide but obviously I wasn't successful.  I think I'll see if I can schedule an appointment to get it done at crappy tire.  
Thank you.