Author Topic: m-tdi problems  (Read 5113 times)

March 27, 2011, 02:08:08 pm

sherlockaaz

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 9
m-tdi problems
« on: March 27, 2011, 02:08:08 pm »
hi guys i have a 1z tdi engine which i fitted a 1.6td fuel pump to, but it has no power,it barely moves until 2500rpm. the pump and engine are standard any info appreciated

colm

Reply #1March 27, 2011, 02:23:12 pm

Vincent Waldon

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 3255
    • My collection of HOWTOs
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 02:23:12 pm »
Are you saying the 1.6 td pump was not modified in any way for TDI usage?

If so... that's your answer right there.  ;)

TDI engines and injectors have completely different fueling pressure, volume, and timing requirements than the older IDI engines, and the pump needs to be significantly modified accordingly.

Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 02:26:04 pm by Vincent Waldon »
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #2March 27, 2011, 02:33:52 pm

sherlockaaz

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 9
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 02:33:52 pm »
thats it yes i thought it would work but just be lower power but at the min id say it has 30bhp

Reply #3March 27, 2011, 02:48:00 pm

Vincent Waldon

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 3255
    • My collection of HOWTOs
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 02:48:00 pm »
Well, it sounds like your prediction for lower power was correct!

Unfortunately there's really no way to salvage what you're trying to do... a proper mTDI pump is the way to go.

Lots of info about this on the web, or you can find a builder who will build you one.  In general it's a hybrid of an IDI pump body with TDI head, cam, delivery valves etc.

You can get started by reading thru the fairly comprehensive mTDI thread in the FAQ section on this board.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 02:54:09 pm by Vincent Waldon »
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #4March 27, 2011, 03:00:50 pm

sherlockaaz

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 9
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 03:00:50 pm »
cheers for the info

Reply #5March 28, 2011, 10:06:35 am

blackdogvan

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 574
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 10:06:35 am »
Interestingly enough this thread on brickwerks has a AAZ pump happily running a tdi mill. Doesn't sound like amazing power but the economy is up there (for pushing a van) I believe the JX pump has a 8mm plunger & AAZ 9mm.

"The internal's of the pump are not modified, however the fuel metering is.....its very easy, you shut down the idle screw on the trottle arm so the throttle arm is fully closed. This means you lose tick over speed, however you then adust the main fuel delivery screw on the back of the pump and set your idle with this instead. (you must also shut down/back off the residual fuel screw that compensate for Air Con. Dont worry, you will never overfuel it, even when using the boost pin to its most aggressive position, smoke is hardly visiable. But you must make sure the main delivery scew is worked with in 1/8 increments, it is very sensive, turn it too far out and you could risk diesel runaway. The golden rule is to make sure the engine returns to idle within 3 seconds of revving up high. I made my own boost pin for even more power and only then was I getting some black smoke, driving with the home made boost pin was amazing and I could Pull from 30mph to over 80mph in 5th!!! I lost MPG so reverted back to the adustable GTD boost pin( can pull 35mph to 80 in 5th, so only lost a tiny bit) I posted a massive page on here years ago in great detail how to do it (I have worked with Marine diesel engines most of my life, so I knew what I was doing.
You must then give the pump a touch more advance (timing) because the AAZ pump takes a lilttle longer to build up the required working pressure to lift the injecter needles.....
Providing you are not getting black smoke and you havent messed aroudn with the Turbo waste gate, you wont need to worry about exessive ehaust manifold temps either, its all very simple.
If anyting the TDI's run cooler than the AAZ engines because the greatly increased head efficiency and direct injection properties. Indirect (AAZ) engines, the combustion starts in the Howard chambers which greatly increases head temps. TDI's run much cooler, I have sat for hours in the nasty cornwall summer traffic jams, I have never once had the cooling fans kick in and Im still runnning the smaller petrol radiator!!!
I used to have a good 1.6TD crew cab, its every bit as powerful with more torque and stonks along the motorway (I held it at 70mph for over 7 hrs driving back from cornwall through the night, no problems. Flat out it does a smidge over 80mph, (94mph down hill is the most I have ever had) but this is the limitations of gearing and pure BHP.
Shame the box broke, it was a rare one, (8D) nice and high geared similer to the more desirable AAP BOX.
As for budget conversion, Home made left hand engine mount, exhaust and intercooler plumbing. Engine out of a 98 MK3 Golf Estate, AAZ pump of the shelf from the scrap yard and the intercooler.
Stock T3D flywheel and clutch, gearbox was £50 of ebay......so had my monies work out of the box LOL.......Never thought I would get 55,000 trouble free miles........amazing!
 
As for comparison to newer stuff, I drive a 57 plate 1.7Common Rail Astra van for my work everyday, the Velle feels more responsive with no Turbo lag and more torque. The Astra feels half asleep. I must be getting pretty good power becaue I can fly past all those bay window's climbing hills in Cornwall........LOL



The whole thread (with little other info)

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/mtdi-55000-mile-update_topic62248.html

I'm curious to hear what some of the in the know gents around here think of this.
1991 Vanagon 1.9 mTDI

Reply #6April 07, 2011, 11:50:43 pm

rolo

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 40
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2011, 11:50:43 pm »
Been discussing this recently and was told that the euro aaz camplate appears to be the same as the tdi.
and that the gtd is a more agressive version. 
As this would seem to mean that it would give more cam lift than my landrover pump. A mod worth considering could be the gtd plate.
Anyone got one (Euro) on the bench that could measured across the diameters of the peaks and troughs? 





the last one

Reply #7April 08, 2011, 08:12:13 am

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 08:12:13 am »
Been discussing this recently and was told that the euro aaz camplate appears to be the same as the tdi.
and that the gtd is a more agressive version. 
As this would seem to mean that it would give more cam lift than my landrover pump. A mod worth considering could be the gtd plate.
Anyone got one (Euro) on the bench that could measured across the diameters of the peaks and troughs? 

call giles up and ask him, rather than just speculate..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #8April 08, 2011, 11:25:14 am

rolo

  • User+

  • Offline
  • *

  • 40
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 11:25:14 am »
Just want a measure not speculating. The guy who had both camplates on the bench doesn`t either.
If Giles wants to answer he will.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 11:33:59 am by rolo »
the last one

Reply #9April 09, 2011, 01:50:13 am

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2011, 01:50:13 am »
giles is almost never on the forum, he does check his email and answer his phone tho..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #10May 09, 2011, 07:38:14 pm

Giles@PerformanceDiesel

  • Authorized Vendor
  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 221
    • http://www.performancediesel.ca
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 07:38:14 pm »
no the GTD pump does not have a good enough cam plate for TDI pumps
Giles

Reply #11May 13, 2011, 07:20:20 pm

blackdogvan

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 574
Re: m-tdi problems
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 07:20:20 pm »
I certainly hope people won't bother Giles at his place of business with random questions... that's kinda what this forum is for!
1991 Vanagon 1.9 mTDI