Author Topic: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions  (Read 23948 times)

Reply #45March 22, 2011, 05:30:58 pm

RabbitJockey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 5104
  • Personal Text
    America, DUCK YEAH!!!
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2011, 05:30:58 pm »
the mitsubishi turbo is smaller than the t3 and k24, i don't think he'll have any trouble spooling it
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #46March 22, 2011, 06:28:18 pm

RabbitJockey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 5104
  • Personal Text
    America, DUCK YEAH!!!
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2011, 06:28:18 pm »


also found this:
 T3  compressor wheel  
   6 blades
 
Part number:    409096-0010
Wheel diameter mm (A)60,00
 Inducer diameter mm (B)  35,40
Tip height mm (C) 3,00
Wheel bore diameter     6,00
TRIM     35

Or this boosted from jake

Check it out...  A blow-up parts diagram with parts numbers for the 1.6lTD Garrett TA0304B is available on-line  here and specs on the compressors are available here, and turbine wheels here.  Referencing the appropriate part numbers to these tables, and using the measurements I took directly from the guts of the 1.6lTD KKK turbo, we can compare these turbos more closely...

garrett compressor:
  blades: 6
  wheel diameter: 60.00mm
  inducer bore: 35.40mm
  tip height: 3.00mm

kkk compressor:
  blades: 6 major, 6 minor (12 total)
  wheel diameter: 60.5mm
  inducer bore: 37.5mm
  tip height: 4mm

findings: nearly identical compressor wheel OD means pressure ratio capability of the two are about equal.  However, ~6% larger inducer bore of the KKK means it can flow a bit more air.  There is also a very significantly greater tip height with the KKK turbo (33% greater on the KKK).

garrett turbine:
  blades: 11
  wheel diameter: 59.00 mm
  exducer bore diameter: 49.00mm

kkk turbine:
  blades: 12
  wheel diameter: 59mm
  exducer bore diameter: 49.5mm

findings: except for one additional blade on the kkk turbine, the turbine sections have nearly identical specs.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 06:29:51 pm by Trev0rbr »
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #47March 22, 2011, 06:44:46 pm

trav1856

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 230
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2011, 06:44:46 pm »
first off, this thread is in the wrong section :)

second off, the turbo oil filter flange, is indeed special.. the n/a unit will not work.

the only turbos available on VW diesels that are water cooled, are not available in the USA..

what turbo do you have that needs water cooling? not one off a US or Can spec TD, thats for sure.

anyways, you might get more help if you posted up in the IDI section, being that you are working on an IDI diesel :)

hope we can help..


It's not in the wrong section when the mods move it here.
1981 Rabbit Diesel
1981 Cabriolet

Reply #48March 22, 2011, 06:47:43 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2011, 06:47:43 pm »
first off, this thread is in the wrong section :)

second off, the turbo oil filter flange, is indeed special.. the n/a unit will not work.

the only turbos available on VW diesels that are water cooled, are not available in the USA..

what turbo do you have that needs water cooling? not one off a US or Can spec TD, thats for sure.

anyways, you might get more help if you posted up in the IDI section, being that you are working on an IDI diesel :)

hope we can help..


It's not in the wrong section when the mods move it here.

lol, when i wrote that, this topic was in the TDI section.. then Vincent moved it here for us.
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #49March 23, 2011, 05:35:31 am

Bugsy_malone 666

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 178
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2011, 05:35:31 am »
I think what I am seeing in this thread is digresssion from the orginal question and bickering about whether something will and wont work.

So cooling, lets head back to it.

Something that has crossed my mind is that other than a water coolant line and aux pump for the turbo(which although not fitted to all cars would be an advantage to help the turbo live longer) Is actually other cooling for this, for example you may want to also look at running a bigger radiator if the main cooling loop is going to be under more strain with the turbo heating the system up as well.

Theres also the other thing that I think which is things like piston squirters and an LDA for fuel pump advance so you have a TD to start with as your base and then you can worrk about the turbo spool after that.

Reply #50March 23, 2011, 06:35:42 am

bgbmxer

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 107
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2011, 06:35:42 am »
I'd like to plumb the coolant to the turbo off the stock plumbing I don't see a need to run an auxiliary system. As for a bigger radiator I dont know how I'm going to plumb the front mount with the stock rad in place it's going to be tight. But a aluminum rad could be made and better electric fans could be used also.


As for the oil squirters and the lda I'm not sure if I need them as of yet. They don't hurt thats for sure but how does the lda work with the gov mod? Since it's an Na block I don't have oil squirters so I'm just gonna have to watch my egts

Reply #51March 23, 2011, 08:27:41 am

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2011, 08:27:41 am »
I'd like to plumb the coolant to the turbo off the stock plumbing I don't see a need to run an auxiliary system. As for a bigger radiator I dont know how I'm going to plumb the front mount with the stock rad in place it's going to be tight. But a aluminum rad could be made and better electric fans could be used also.


As for the oil squirters and the lda I'm not sure if I need them as of yet. They don't hurt thats for sure but how does the lda work with the gov mod? Since it's an Na block I don't have oil squirters so I'm just gonna have to watch my egts

i would air cool the turbo, and keep as much heat out of the coolant as possible..

and you dont NEED an lda, or oil squirters.. like you say, watch your EGT. pistons are made from aluminum. and melt around 1250*
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #52March 23, 2011, 08:35:30 am

RabbitJockey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 5104
  • Personal Text
    America, DUCK YEAH!!!
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2011, 08:35:30 am »
I think what I am seeing in this thread is digresssion from the orginal question and bickering about whether something will and wont work.

So cooling, lets head back to it.

Something that has crossed my mind is that other than a water coolant line and aux pump for the turbo(which although not fitted to all cars would be an advantage to help the turbo live longer) Is actually other cooling for this, for example you may want to also look at running a bigger radiator if the main cooling loop is going to be under more strain with the turbo heating the system up as well.

Theres also the other thing that I think which is things like piston squirters and an LDA for fuel pump advance so you have a TD to start with as your base and then you can worrk about the turbo spool after that.


haha yes alot of bickering with just hear say numbers make for a more constructive conversation.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #53March 23, 2011, 04:04:39 pm

bgbmxer

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 107
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2011, 04:04:39 pm »
Anyone have a diagram of coolant flow? I don't wanna use a aux pump just plumb it with the stock stuff.

Reply #54March 23, 2011, 04:10:41 pm

bgbmxer

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 107
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2011, 04:10:41 pm »

and you dont NEED an lda, or oil squirters.. like you say, watch your EGT. pistons are made from aluminum. and melt around 1250*
[/quote]


The hotter the turbo is the hotter the air charge. So im gonna water cool it.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 04:23:55 pm by bgbmxer »

Reply #55March 23, 2011, 04:46:46 pm

RabbitJockey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 5104
  • Personal Text
    America, DUCK YEAH!!!
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2011, 04:46:46 pm »
the water flow is pretty simple actually, basically forget about the radiator hoses,  the water pumps out side flows in to the block, so the outlet on the side of the head towards the transmission is on the out side of the flow, everything else flows in to the pump, so the 2 heater hoses would be good to use to cool the turbo and would basically be the same thing as using the 2 hoses for the factory oil coiler.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #56March 23, 2011, 04:57:34 pm

bgbmxer

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 107
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2011, 04:57:34 pm »
the water flow is pretty simple actually, basically forget about the radiator hoses,  the water pumps out side flows in to the block, so the outlet on the side of the head towards the transmission is on the out side of the flow, everything else flows in to the pump, so the 2 heater hoses would be good to use to cool the turbo and would basically be the same thing as using the 2 hoses for the factory oil coiler.

Sweet. Then I'll just use one of the heater core hoses preferably the one flowing out. Of the heater core. This is what I planned i just dont want to restrict flow in a place thats needed

Reply #57March 23, 2011, 07:37:00 pm

RabbitJockey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 5104
  • Personal Text
    America, DUCK YEAH!!!
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2011, 07:37:00 pm »
what would be real sweet is you can actually get a freeze out plug that has a water port built in, i think it comes from a mk4 vr6 or a tt 1.8t or something, but it fits our blocks, then you could run one hose from the back of the block to the turbo, then run a another hose to the return on the heater hose, that would be the cleanest way to do it.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #58March 23, 2011, 10:56:40 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2011, 10:56:40 pm »
If you don't use an aux pump, then the coolant WILL boil in the turbo on shutdown.  Better to not use the water cooling at all.

...i said something along these lines about 4 pages ago... ???
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #59March 24, 2011, 02:32:01 am

bgbmxer

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 107
Re: na to td conversion turbo coolant line questions
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2011, 02:32:01 am »
what would be real sweet is you can actually get a freeze out plug that has a water port built in, i think it comes from a mk4 vr6 or a tt 1.8t or something, but it fits our blocks, then you could run one hose from the back of the block to the turbo, then run a another hose to the return on the heater hose, that would be the cleanest way to do it.
So they use that as a factory piece? Do one of the vendors sell these?

I could always get a new set of plugs and weld pipe to it.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 02:42:13 am by bgbmxer »