"Smokey" adiabatic IDI design

[NintendoKD]

I wonder if there is a way to implement the adibatic ideas and concepts into an IDI engine?  the IDI already uses it on a small scale with the swirl chambers.  Why not take it another step?  Good Ol' Smokey

[NintendoKD]

It would be similar in fashion to the conventional gasoline style stratified charge but with a unique IDI twist.  the system would have to utilize two turbos. one for pre-mixing the air fuel mixture, and the other to add air at higher pressures., now the tricky part would be timing, combustion would happen muuuuuuch later due to the mixture of fuel to air would be so complete and that it would be so lean.  and the amount of diesel would be dramatically reduced, AKA turning the fuel screw waaaay down.  The only downfall is there would be no intercoolnig allowed, to keep as much of the heat in the engine as possible, in other words using the heat that is not otherwise wasted.  So Here goes  injectors would be in two stages. one: to inject fuel at high pressures at the onset of air induction, this would travel through a chamber similar to a heat exchanger that has the cooliant running through it. this heats the fuel and mixes it and causes it to expand. it then travels to the mixer turbo that has an exhaust jacket around the "cold" side heating and mixing and expanding the mixture even more.  This turbo also acts as a one-way valve to prevent the pressurized air/fuel mix from going the wrong way.  the air fuel mix then travells to the vnt AKA "turbo of your choice" to be pressurized even more.  at this point the air fuel mix is now on its way to the intake mani less intercooler.  the entire intake system has to be wrapped to keep the heat in and has to be built to withstand tremendous pressures.  At these temps/pressures they have expanded to a tremendous degree, however because of the lack of fuel running super lean like 30:1 and the high pressure atomization and high heat mixing  detonation will not occur.  I will say it again "DETONATION WILL NOT OCCUR!"  this will not need to be forced into the chamber as induction passively will force the mixture int the cyl for you due to the air being of a much lower temp and mixture than the pressurized vapor that you are introducing, the intake cam adjustment will be very little duration to prevent escape valve closes regular injection occurs just before TDC retarded... YES RETARDED! there is a reason for this  the exhaust timing must also be controlled.  What this does: there is no fan the coolant is just what is in the radiator and block plus piping to the excvhanger and the exchanger unit.  the coolant is cooled by the radiator and the heat exchanger as the intake air is inducted.  the exhaust turns the two turbines and heats the "mixer" turbo the mixer turbo has three jobs, it is just to mix and heat the mix of fuel and air, and act as a on-way valve, it is not to pressurize as most would think.  The injector fuel screw would have to be turned waaaay down very little fuel as possible would be necessary to create a flame front to ignite the rest of the mixture.  Hate to say it but unless you are running in excess of 10,000 rpms ther would be no reason to use a Giles pump, in fact the less fancy the pump the better, no LDA's required the timing advance mechanism is ennough.  There will be no black smoke, lower egt's and lower emmissions as well as an increase in fuel economy and power, as more of the fuel is burned with higher efficiencies.  the boost could be turned waaaay up too 40:1 compression... GO FOR IT!  the key here is to lean out the initial mix and use as little flame front injection fuel as possible.  Ceramic components would be even better, because it would keep the heat from excaping and reuse it.  The key here is adiabatic, where the heat stays constant.  Let me know what you think an I a loony, please tell me so, I get my jollies from it.

Nintendo

[Dirtrag2]

Nintendo, you need help 

i do enjoy reading your posts tho  sounds posssible on paper ( or on screen ? )  but then again so does timetravel.  i guess someone just has to work thru the physics of it all.

good luck.

[NintendoKD]

Don't get me started on time travel, have you read hawkings new book?  whole new can-o-worms   I like that though, the whole physics thing, you think otto diesel knew much about physics when he created his concept engine?  I am sure he was well versed in Newtons laws of motion though.  Here is the deal, the status quo says cold air is more dense therefore more air + more fuel = more power, but what you also don't realize is that also means more waste energy, and more wasted and unused fuel "black smoke anyone?".  My way, The waste energy becomes usable energy, I don't exspect to have tremendous power gains or over-unity here, just a better more efficient way to do things.  There is still waste heat and energy, even in the almighty realm of the diesel cycle.  If there were a way to harness the electromagnetic energy of the hydrogen and carbon bonds  in this concept then we may very well have the solution to the energy cisis.  But that isn't what I'm talking about here.  I am talking about a very real conversion here.  You need one extra injector and a common Y line from all four injectors plus the injector needs to have stupid hard springs in it.  this injector would be the vapor injector and have a very high pressure exerted by the vanes of all four lines from the pump, this would also take care of the timing aspect.  the piping would require a bit of know how and would have to be all metal and withstand high pressure, and heat.  you would be essentialy using a modified turbo with some exhaust piping connected in a shroud to heat up the intake charge, after the heat exchanger.  A different cam and fuel setup "settings only" would be the only modifications required, this is very doable and would not require any major modifications to the car.  Internal components would remain the same, trannies would not change, oil fluids, you just have to remove the radiator and the use of silicone hoses is suggested, but in Smoky's design he used stock components.  Just wish he could be here to see the revoloution.

[TDIMeister]

An engine running 30:1 will get about 2/3s the power of one running 20:1.

[NintendoKD]

Yes, as I understand it, because of thermal expansion and some other variables, the higher the compression in an ICE the higher the efficiency "TO A CERTAIN POINT"  I get it.  The other problem is will this engine "adiabatic one", be capable of higher rpms, like the standard  cold air designs?  I don't have all of the answers, but I think that it is at least worth exploring.  As it is now the automotive enginers are exploring this technology  just now....... well after old Smoky is dead conspiracy or not I think he was on to something.  Adiabatic means "no change in temp" so essentially the engine is a giant heat pump with the added bonus of prodicing work from the pulleys and flywheel end.

[TDIMeister]

No, it has absolutely nothing to do with all that you've posted about at all.  Your second post mentioning 30:1 referred to running the mixture super lean.  I was addressing only this narrow subject.  30:1 has 2/3 the fuel energy as 20:1, so as a first approximation, you will get 2/3 of the power.  You are not going to make up for the shortfall of power through efficiency gains alone.  Adiabatic engines *were* explored by automotive engineers en masse in the 1970s and early `80s.  They always made less power than conventional engines, but what ultimately killed them was that NOx emissions in particular were much higher, and reliability was a problem, particularly to find a lubrication system that would take the heat.

[vdubspeed]

Holy crap guys. Is this a physics class for Ph.Ds or something.

[R.O.R-2.0]

Holy crap guys. Is this a physics class for Ph.Ds or something.

yes.. this is the equivalent of nuclear physics for mechanics! lol.

[trav1856]

We're trying to split diesel atoms here ;-)

[NintendoKD]

A lot has changed since the 70's and 80's, there are more resillient synthetic lubricants, better materials, and electronic valve timing LOL , but the nox emissions will be kept down, essentialy there would only be minimal numbers of c02 and H20, If I am right. All I want to say, is that it may be worth a look, and possibly worth some time and research.  shoot ol' Rudolph planned his engine to run on peanut oil, and never had the materials or the technology available in his lifetime to complete his dream, are you telling me that with all of the intelligence and technology that we possess we can't figure this out?  sides, there is more going on than just low fuel to air ratios, it is something combining the electromagnetic energies at a tremendously small level.  at that, the adiabatic design is more like a heat pump than just a simple ICE, turning the ambient "low energy" cold air, into "higher energy" hot air.  the heat itself is even an electromagnetic factor that is a significant variable.  I would also like to add that there is a very unique cam timing that occurs here and to get the engine started will require more fuel until the engine reaches a given temperature.

[R.O.R-2.0]

i think if there were any gains or changes to be had with this old, outdated idea, then someone would have explored it by now. there is never going to be a way to have a magic engine that is powerful and efficient. the idea would be bought by a big oil company and destroyed before it saw the light of day..

what about the 100mpg carburator? yea, we never saw much of that one either, big oil bought the idea and buried it so they could keep selling lots of oil.. hell, the oil companys would go out of business, or charge $30/a gallon for fuel if everyone was driving around a car that got 50mpg or better.. just think about it for a minute guys..

[RabbitJockey]

i think if there were any gains or changes to be had with this old, outdated idea, then someone would have explored it by now. there is never going to be a way to have a magic engine that is powerful and efficient. the idea would be bought by a big oil company and destroyed before it saw the light of day..

what about the 100mpg carburator? yea, we never saw much of that one either, big oil bought the idea and buried it so they could keep selling lots of oil.. hell, the oil companys would go out of business, or charge $30/a gallon for fuel if everyone was driving around a car that got 50mpg or better.. just think about it for a minute guys..

exactly, oil companies control the supply no matter what, there is not much competition, there is plenty of demand to spread out across all of them.  Also i don't really see how the whole adiabatic idea would apply to an idi, its like when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[NintendoKD]

I completely understand what you are saying here, however, popularity in going green, and the idea of making more money from alternative energy will eventually push even the cold hearted oil barons to new horizons.  alternative energy markets are experiencing almost exponential growth, even during the econnomic crisis, oil barons would have to be complete idiots not to cash in.  in 1984 a vw rabbit diesel gets 60mpg, for some reason they cannot seem to replicate this again in even modern cars?  I get it, you say cold fusion is impossible because no one has done it, I argue the opposite for the same reason.  "there's no such thing as no such thing" and evil prevails because the valiant are lazy   I, for one, will continue to sound like a fool, so, if giving up means letting ideas like this go, then a fool am I

[R.O.R-2.0]

I completely understand what you are saying here, however, popularity in going green, and the idea of making more money from alternative energy will eventually push even the cold hearted oil barons to new horizons.  alternative energy markets are experiencing almost exponential growth, even during the econnomic crisis, oil barons would have to be complete idiots not to cash in.  in 1984 a vw rabbit diesel gets 60mpg, for some reason they cannot seem to replicate this again in even modern cars?  I get it, you say cold fusion is impossible because no one has done it, I argue the opposite for the same reason.  "there's no such thing as no such thing" and evil prevails because the valiant are lazy   I, for one, will continue to sound like a fool, so, if giving up means letting ideas like this go, then a fool am I

dude, its never going to happen. the oil barons will never change, because there will always be a demand for oil, and there will always be the root of all evil.. the all mighty green back.