New Engine - White Smoke UPDATED

[texaseric]

Here's the situation (SEE UPDATE BELOW!):

Rebuilt everything. Injection pump rebuilt by Giles in Ontario. Compression at 420-plus psi per cylinder. Injectors checked out okay by local injection shop (break pressure at 155 bar).  Injectors don't leak and good spray pattern, they say. But I'm planning to get these checked because I don't trust the shop 100 percent. Timing checks out at .039 inches (= 1mm).  I adjusted this one myself.

New injector seats. I know how to use a torque wrench.

Emptied the tank and replaced the aging (slightly red/organge) fuel with fresh diesel. Ran it through the IP until clean fuel was coming out.

Engine smokes white like crazy and can't hold an idle. It will run, but not at idle speeds. Have to work the accelerator pedal. Very little time on the engine (maybe less than ten minutes).

I'm getting ready to dump this project and part out this 1.6 TD on eBay.

This might be my last call for help. I appreciate any advice I can get.

--texaseric   :roll:

[andy2]

Does the smoke smell like unburnt fuel?How well does the engine start up?
Check the fuel line entering the pump for any air bubbles in it.
Make sure that the banjo fittings marked IN/OUT are in thier correct spots on the pump(IN for supply,OUT for return).Does the engine run any better with the Cold start handle pulled out and/or will it only run with it pulled out?Does the engine sound like its firing on all four or is one cyl not firing?

[Dr. Diesel]

double check all the timing. I've seen a rabbit running with the injection pump 180* out, firing the injectors at TDC exhaust. Similar symptoms. Like Andy said, what does the exhaust smell like? Any particular noises the engine's making?

[fatmobile]

Did you set the injection pump timing with the cold start lever pulled?

[DieselsRcool]

I think DrD is right. My money is on 180 degrees out.  :arrow:

[texaseric]

Just checked the timing. The mark on the injector pump gear is at the top with the engine at TDC (lobes on cam are up for cylinder No. 1--the cylinder closest to the timing belt). So unless the woodruff key is slotted incorrectly on the IP spindle (can that be easily screwed up in a rebuild?), the pump timing is not 180-degrees off. I was actually hoping it was!

Smoke smells like unburnt diesel. White.

Cold start lever was in all the way when I set the timing.

The engine starts, but doesn't hold idle at all. Have to rev it to keep it going. No noises that I can tell, but since I've never heard a TD run before, I'm no expert (had an NA before).

My next step is to have the injectors rebuilt and tested. If that fails, I may take a sledgehammer to this engine and buy a Buick. (My driver is a 2001 Jetta TDI, so that was a joke--but I'm giving up on TDs because this has been a nightmare.)  :x

[Dr. Diesel]

so when you're holding the pedal to keep it running, is that when you can smell unburned fuel? Is it running smoothly, or thumping like one or two cylinders aren't firing? Use the throttle cable adjustment to set a hands-free fast idle, then crack each fuel line-to-injector union in turn and note what happens. Each time you open a line, that cylinder should stop firing and you'd notice a drop in rpm and a rougher idle. If you crack open a line, and there's little or no difference in idle speed or quality, you know there's something up with that cylinder. Maybe while you have your injectors out for checking, do a compression and leakdown check. It's easy to make a quickie leakdown checker, the most basic of which is a spare injector with it's guts removed, and a hose clamped onto it's line threads. Supply air pressure to each cylinder at TDC compression and listen for where the air is escaping. Hear it through the oil filler hole? rings. (there should be some there even in a perfect engine, due to ring gaps) hear it through the turbo inlet? (take inlet pipe off) intake valve. turbo exhaust outlet? (take exhaust elbow off turbo) exhaust valve.
make sure the engine is perfectly on TDC compression, or the air pressure could unexpectedly turn the engine over.

If you feel like dynamiting the whole works, just shove it in a corner and cool off for a week or two. When you eventually get it figured out, you'll feel a great deal of satisfaction in the learning experience and your nice running TD.

incidentally, off boost TD's sound pretty much the same as n/a's.

don't give up!

[Master ACiD]

generally a shop would have no reason to lie about injectors testing out good. they would be more inclined to tell you thay are bad.

[texaseric]

No bubbles in the line.

[texaseric]

Dr Diesel. Thanks for the advice. I plan to convert one of the injection nozzles from my NA into a compression and leakdown tester and follow your advice before I take the sledge to this disaster. I've learned more than I care to about TDs--to no avail.

I did a search for an adapter and came up blank. My current compression tester fits the glow plug hole only. (The largest adapter fittings  that came with it are too small for the injector threads.)  Unfortunately, the IP gets in way of glow plug location for Cylinders 1 and 2. BTW: Cylinders 3 and 4 tested at 420 psi (at the gloplug hole) They held the pressure quite well.

I'll post a how-to on the adapter in case anyone else wants to make one of these.
 :?

[texaseric]

Can't do the detach-the-injector-line dealio because engine won't idle at a reasonable or steady rpm. I don't want the engine spinning at 4,000 rpm while I fumble around with the injector nuts in clouds of white smoke. The banjo connections are a no-brainer. IN coming from the fuel filter and out going to the return and the small injector line on Cylinder 4.

Will swapping the pumps really work? I thought NA pump is associated with nozzles with break pressure set for about 120 bar whereas I have 155 bar injectors in the (TD) engine.  I'm about to sacrifice one of the NA injectors as well.

[fatmobile]

I think they meant make sure it says "OUT" on the output banjo bolt.
 ...if it didn't, you would see bubbles in the fuel.

[Dr. Diesel]

the memory might be failing me, but it seems to me that 465psi was the minimum for cylinder compression..

[Asymtave]

OK - I'm new here so take it easy one me....

Everyone seems to rave about Giles but I know nothing about them.  I just want to say that it is possible to assemble the pump with the cam/plunger 180 degrees out.  Giles sounds like an top notch outfit but everyone makes mistakes.

This is probably not the case but just a thought.  Swapping out the pumps, while a PITA, would eliminate this as a cause.

Eric

[farfugzukn]

i recently put a 1.6 vw diesel into my 87 sami the mtr ran fine before i pulled it out of jetta, but i wanted to fresh it up a bit and put some new parts into it. Had the head rebuilt, new injectors, rebuilt inject pump couple other odds and ends. and i am having the same problem you are. unfortunatly i cant get a shop to look at it cause it is in a sami. The shops all say there is no book that has info on a vw mtr in a sami!  but a couple of the guys have offered suggestions say it sounds like the pump is 180 out. As well as a co-worker on mine who was a vw mech in the 70s and 80s he says it sounds like it is 180 out.....im going to try this today....ill let ya know