Serpentine

[Armyhelopilot]

All,
 
    As you know, I have a '83 jetta 1.6 going into a '93 Geo Tracker.  The problem is the accessories (A/C, P/S, ALT) are all Geo factory 4 rib serpentine while the VW is a single V belt crank driven.  I have seen places sell 2 groove crank V belt pulleys.  However, that would mean I have to convert 3 accessories to V belts where if I went the other way, I would have to convert the crank to a 4 rib serpentine as well as the W/P.  Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of having done this?  Or how about a serpentine and V belt combo (keeping the V belt pulley an bolting on a 4 rib serp pulley)?  The ALT is new, the A/C is still great (replaced < 1 year ago) and P/S is strong still so I would hate to have to go junkyarding for VW V belt accessories.  Now, if I went serp, what will that do to the crank nose and pulley?  Will it shear off?  Will I have to put the 1.9 TDI sprocket on it?  Thoughts anyone?  I have read psots where others have put serpentine on but that was VW to VW parts (5+ ribs on pulley).  Thanks.

Bob

[R.O.R-2.0]

pull the serp pulley off the suzuki 1.6, and make it bolt on the VW, or make an adapter for it..

[nathan_b]

Why not use the vw alternator, and ps pump. I haven't lived quite long enough to care for a/c

[maxfax]

IF you go with the serp setup, the TDI crank sprocket won't hurt a darned thing..

[Bugsy_malone 666]

so your going to use the accessories fit from your current engine, but use a vw 1.6 diesel?

I think the first question is, what level of work would it take to just use the crank pulley off your existing engine and put it on the 1.6D?

there are various different setups amoung the various vw engines and I have encountered quite a few trying to make the right setup for the 1600TD in my van when I converted from V belt to serp belt.

Basically you have the old 1600D which is normally a stock single V, in 1600TDs you could get a double V as the bigger of the 2 pulleys drove to alt/water pump and the smaller drove the power steering (not sure what drove the A/C as I have never seen one) on mk3 golfs you could get 2 different types of bottom serp pulley. On the GTi you got a Serp pulley which was on an aluminium centre/rubber mount and it also had a secondary intergral V belt for the PAS. on the 1.8engine which looked the same as the GTI in design, if I am right its got a steel serp that bolts straight to the crank and then you can also get a V belt secondary that bolts inside of that. now out of the 2 try and hunt down the GTi pulley, basically with vw diesels if you were using stock alt/PAS stuff you would need to machine off a few mm off the aluminium mount of the pulley so everything lines up, although if you are making all your own mount brackets you wouldnt need to.

On new vws (2000 on I know) you get serp pulleys for the crank which are only pressed steel and have a much shallower mounting, I run a Skoda Octavia (vw passat in disguise) and I actually had to make a 4mm crank spacer from a piece of aluminium plate to make sure it aligned right with my alternator/water pump (which happens to be a GTi pump pulley as they are totally smooth and arent worried about precise alignment)

So it maybe the case of hunting round a few junkyards and ebay to cobble something together.

[nathan_b]

Bugsy, a lot of odd stuff you mention there, I think sadly all your info is relevant to europe only, not us(a).

[Bugsy_malone 666]

Bugsy, a lot of odd stuff you mention there, I think sadly all your info is relevant to europe only, not us(a).

well the GTi serp conversion I only know about on the diesel because of surfing VWvortex!

as for the other pulley items I think thats more to going to a Junk yard and having a look!

I realised what a Geo tracker is now after going on wikipedia, its a suzuki Vitara! my dad had one over here (1600 petrol) and I know its fairly common to stick a vw diesel in them, I know later ones also came as a diesel.

I cant help but think the main crank pulley bolts on a bit like the vw diesel though?

[nathan_b]

Here in the us, all mk1/2 came with various v belt only setups. All mk3 4cyl have basically the same setup, vbelt on the outside running the water pump and ps, setp on the inside running the alt and ac, vr6 has a single serrp belt for everything ( common mod is to steal the vr6 water pump pulley and re route the serp on a 4cyl to  spin everything (if you are deleting ps)). Mk4+ has a single serp belt, but timing belt drives wp, which is now inside the block.

I still think it would be easiest to use a vw alt and ps pump, and run a secong v belt for the ac or something. (stack v belt pulleys on crank)

[bajacalal]

If you keep your Suzuki (Geo) accessories, you will have to adapt them all to fit your VW engine and figure out how to route a belt between them, easier said than done, I suppose... I would use the VW A/C and P/S pumps with V belts. Aside from the crank sprocket problem you mentioned, it seems easier as all you should have to do is get custom pressure hoses made to connect the VW steering and A/C pumps to the components on your car if you want to keep those luxuries, this is something a local shop should be able to do.

Then, there is the water pump... They usually, but not always, use a flat pulley and the back side of the serpentine belt, the result is that it spins the opposite way the engine does. The pump has to be designed to spin this way, even though a serpentine pulley and a v-belt pulley may both fit a water pump, it will only pump water in one direction of rotation. Incidentally, I've seen VW engines with a serpentine belt AND a V belt, the crank pulley has a slot for both. The V belt drives the water pump.

[Armyhelopilot]

All,

    Good info.  The serpentine / V belt combo is probably what I will have to go to.  The engine did not come with accessories so I would have to go to the junkyard and get a power steering pump, a/c pump and alternator (not my favorite option).  The engine only came with the single V belt groove crank pulley and the water pump (single groove).  So, if I can, I could run the W/P, change the serp pulley on the ALT to groove, and then run the A/C and P/S off of the serpentine side of the pulley.  What VW vehicles and years did those combo pulleys come on in the US? This way seems easiest as I do not have to buy 3 additional pumps and pulleys plus A/C lines......just a crank pulley and fabricate a few brackets out of steel and weld.  Will the crank nose take this?

Bob

[maxfax]

I'd probably do the upgrade to the TDI sprocket as some cheap insurance..  Since the a/c compressor is cycling on and off, and serp belts won;t slip like a v-belt, there's probably gonna be some pretty good shocks on it..

For your pulley, a mk3 4 banger should fix you up.. I believe that would be Jettas and Golfs '93 to '99... Not sure if the serp belts on those are the same width though...   Happen to have a buddy with a lathe??  Possibly get a spacer made to bolt the Tracker pulley on with the VW pulley..

[R.O.R-2.0]

Bugsy, a lot of odd stuff you mention there, I think sadly all your info is relevant to europe only, not us(a).

well the GTi serp conversion I only know about on the diesel because of surfing VWvortex!

as for the other pulley items I think thats more to going to a Junk yard and having a look!

I realised what a Geo tracker is now after going on wikipedia, its a suzuki Vitara! my dad had one over here (1600 petrol) and I know its fairly common to stick a vw diesel in them, I know later ones also came as a diesel.

I cant help but think the main crank pulley bolts on a bit like the vw diesel though?

1.8t crank pulley is the right depth already, no need to shave off 6mm..

[Armyhelopilot]

ROR.....The 1.8 is what years what vehicles?  Does it have the serp / v belt configuration and does it have 4 ribs or 5?  The Tracker has 4.  I have seen Spidertrax and LRO make serp/v belt conbos but do not know if the bolt pattern / crank diameter is close.

[nathan_b]

I think he was refering to the 1.8l mk3, which europe/canade got, not usa.

[Thezorn]

Bugsy, a lot of odd stuff you mention there, I think sadly all your info is relevant to europe only, not us(a).

well the GTi serp conversion I only know about on the diesel because of surfing VWvortex!

as for the other pulley items I think thats more to going to a Junk yard and having a look!

I realised what a Geo tracker is now after going on wikipedia, its a suzuki Vitara! my dad had one over here (1600 petrol) and I know its fairly common to stick a vw diesel in them, I know later ones also came as a diesel.

I cant help but think the main crank pulley bolts on a bit like the vw diesel though?

1.8t crank pulley is the right depth already, no need to shave off 6mm..

He is talking about 1.8T.
1.8T (turbo) engines started in the MK4's 99+
MK3 1.8l engines where naturally aspirated