Author Topic: suspiciously high compression numbers  (Read 4414 times)

February 28, 2011, 10:21:42 pm

levi20AE

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suspiciously high compression numbers
« on: February 28, 2011, 10:21:42 pm »
I did a compression and leakdown test tonight and the numbers seem awfully positive (maybe overly high).

500 550 475 500
7%  4%  6% 8%

The motor is a 1.6NA in a 1982 Caddy. The approximate mileage is 207,000. I have taken great care of it and the oldman before me was the OG owner(he had another caddy with 1,250,000mi).  This truck was his "garage truck".  I did the tests cause it has always put out alot of grey/white smoked since i have owned it.  Under zero load it does not smoke at all but under moderate load there is a noticeable amount of grey/white smoke.  Under full load the normal black smoke is present.  I have recently found a K24 turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds.  The fuel economy has gotten better with the turbo at very mild boost (5-7 PSI) and the smoke is "maybe" less but not that noticeable.  My question is what other factors could be causing the white/ grey smoke?  The performance is there but the smoke concerns me. The only hint of a leak during the leakdown was occasional tiny bubbles past the lifter buckets but nothing consistent.  Would replacing the valve guide seals reduce to white/grey smoke?  

Thanks,

Levi
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:15:21 pm by levi20AE »

Reply #1February 28, 2011, 10:28:54 pm

Vincent Waldon

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 10:28:54 pm »
Those compression numbers (assuming your gauge isn't blatantly lying) are indicative of a very well maintained and broken-in engine hitting its prime... congrats!!

Leaky valve seals cause oil to drip down the valves and then burn.. generally noticeable as a puff of blue smoke when first starting the engine after it has sat overnight.  Doens't sound like your story.

White smoke is generally unburnt fuel...worn/misfiring injector(s) a possibility but most commonly retarded timing.  What timing valve are you set to?  Do the injectors have 207K miles on 'em?
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #2February 28, 2011, 10:39:23 pm

levi20AE

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 10:39:23 pm »
I should have mentioned that I just had a set of 130bar injectors rebuilt to 155bar, after installing the K24. The new injectors netted another 2 mpg gain! Still smoking though???

Reply #3February 28, 2011, 11:04:26 pm

mystery3

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 11:04:26 pm »
Are you running a td pump? And where is your timing set?

Reply #4February 28, 2011, 11:05:43 pm

Vincent Waldon

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 11:05:43 pm »
What timing valve are you set to? 

One a turbo engine you can safely be in the 1.00 to 1.05mm range.
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #5February 28, 2011, 11:19:28 pm

levi20AE

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 11:19:28 pm »
It's still an NA pump ( that's why the pressures are so conservative) set at .039" (.991mm). Should I try a less aggressive setting?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 11:21:06 pm by levi20AE »

Reply #6February 28, 2011, 11:22:38 pm

coke

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 11:22:38 pm »
If you are running turbo injectors (155/150 bar) use the turbo timing spec 1-1.05 as Vince indicated.

Reply #7February 28, 2011, 11:24:47 pm

levi20AE

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Re: suspicially high compression numbers
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 11:24:47 pm »
I will try that tomorrow then. Thanks!

Reply #8March 01, 2011, 11:14:53 pm

levi20AE

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 11:14:53 pm »
set the injection pump timing to 1.05 tonight and it did seem to reduce the light colored smoke some.  I also found that the junkyard turbo is pretty unhealthy.  There is a good amount of oil blowing by the compressor and into the intake manifold.  This is likely another cause of light colored smoke. 

Reply #9March 02, 2011, 08:12:44 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 08:12:44 am »
set the injection pump timing to 1.05 tonight and it did seem to reduce the light colored smoke some.  I also found that the junkyard turbo is pretty unhealthy.  There is a good amount of oil blowing by the compressor and into the intake manifold.  This is likely another cause of light colored smoke. 

ive never seen a turbo that was COMPLETELY CLEAN..

my VNT cakes my charge piping with engine oil..

i bet your turbo is fine. if its bad, it makes the engine run away.
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #10March 02, 2011, 11:37:43 am

levi20AE

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 11:37:43 am »
I was also did a boost leak test so I had the silicone hose that runs from the turbo to the intake manifold off.  I started the truck without the hose or the airfilter to see just how much oil is coming from the turbo while the truck was running. I was surprised to find that the turbo wasnt spinning at idle until the truck had been idleing for ~ 5 minutes. Even then it was easy enough to just touch the but on the turbo lightly and it would come to a stop. No oil was streaming from the compressor outlet which was my fear but I am very concerned with the journal bearings in the turbo. I have a healthy K26 from a previous project. Does anyone know if the bearings are compatible?

Reply #11March 02, 2011, 12:53:08 pm

Thezorn

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 12:53:08 pm »
I just had my K14 and K24 apart and they had different size turbine shafts. This doesnt really help but my guess is that they would have different size journal bearings. The K26 has a different flage compaired to the K24. You could easily make a adaptor to make it work.
Maybe just try out the k26 and see how it works, it might spool really late though.

Here is a ton of info on the K26 all depending on what vehicle it came off of. Hope this helps.
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=15595
Compounded 93 AAZ

Reply #12March 03, 2011, 08:05:40 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2011, 08:05:40 am »
if your idle is very low, and the oil pretty cold, your turbo may not spin till you get some into some rpms..

i can stop my VNT with one finger, and its far from worn out.

does your turbo still boost? does it make any odd noises? maybe the smoke you are experiencing is from valve seals? my old rabbit used to smoke blue from bad valve seals.

always thought the turbo was where my engine was losing its oil, but i put the turbo on a different engine and it hardly burns any oil..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #13March 03, 2011, 05:43:30 pm

levi20AE

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 05:43:30 pm »
Im starting to think the smoke is valve guide seals as well after the good compression and leakdown results.  The turbo whines more than I'm used to hearing. Also when going 65 on the freeway if I floor it only make 5 lbs. I can get it to make more by increasing fueling. Has anyone had dealing with rebuilds from the Gpop shop?

Reply #14March 04, 2011, 10:47:21 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: suspiciously high compression numbers
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 10:47:21 am »
Gpop shop is good.. GeeBee backs then whole heartedly. he doesnt do that for someone unless they deserve it..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.