100% biodiesel

[81 vw pu]

In Portland, Oregon......it is mandated that all diesel is biodiesel. (B10 or B20, not sure which.) Anyway, I commute the 60 miles one-way to Portland daily, and made the awful mistake of getting fuel there a few times as a 'test.' What a waste of money. My highway mileage immediately dropped from 52.3 to 44.5 mpg. (Over 3 tanks.) In other words, on a 14 or 15 gallon tank, I lost something like 225 miles. Not very 'green', considering I had to burn another 5 gallons to cover that distance! When I switched back to Shell 100% diesel, not only did the car run better and have mor epower, the mileage returned. Calling biodiesel enviromentally friendly, is like saying electric cars are 'green'.....when most electricity in the country is created by burning COAL. 100 pure diesel for me, more economical, cost less, and results in less polution over the same distance as biodiesel. Plus, I won't be adding to everyones problem of higher food prices, because of the food crops being diverted to biodiesel production. Al Gore needs to quit with this enviromental garbage.....but then again, how much money has he made off 'Global warning??? (Damn, it has been one warm winter everywhere, hasn't it???)

I'm finding it hard to believe that by running B10 or B20 in a 15 gal. tank cost you another 5 gals. of fuel to get the same mileage.
In 15 gals. of B10 there's only 1.5 gals of B100 and B20 would be 3 gals of b100.
I've been running homsbrewed B100 for the last 5 years in 3 rigs and my mileage didn't drop as much as yours with only B10 or B20.

[bigblockchev]

I too find it hard to believe , perhaps a calculation error was responsible. Unless the fuel they sold you was complete crap worse than anything I have ever seen or heard of. Cheers Dan

[rdezsofi]

The reason you experience a mileage decrease is the same as why ethanol returns decreased mileage.  There are less BTU's per gallon of biodiesel versus petroleum diesel.

Biodiesel pollutes less.

Biodiesel is renewable energy.

Biodiesel doesn't need to be made with fresh crop.  Almost all of us find it cheaper to visit restaurants that have to pay to have their "waste oil" removed.  We provide this service for free and put the oil through various filtering methods and produce biodiesel with it.

It is a better lubricant than petrol diesel, means increased life span of rotating components.

It is also a mild solvent and cleans out all the "dirt" in the fuel system that petrol diesel has left.  This has been concluded from people switching to biodiesel and had to change fuel filters a few times fairly close intervals and then after not having to change for a long time.

The two reason why I choose biodiesel versus petrol diesel is ONE, I am not giving money to other countries, and TWO it is cheap to make yourself.  There are also rebates from the EPA to people who venture to produce and can do it successfully bio fuels such as biodiesel.

Say what you will, but keep the flame out of an informative thread, next time create a new thread and call it "Why not to choose biodiesel."


Cited documents:

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24089.pdf

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml
[/quote]

Uh...the thread is supposed to be about biodiesel. I addressed biodiesel as regulated currently. I believe you are referencing WVO....waste vegetable oil. Two different subjects altogether. With WVO, the mileage is irrelevent if you're collecting it for free and processing it yourself.

[rdezsofi]

In Portland, Oregon......it is mandated that all diesel is biodiesel. (B10 or B20, not sure which.) Anyway, I commute the 60 miles one-way to Portland daily, and made the awful mistake of getting fuel there a few times as a 'test.' What a waste of money. My highway mileage immediately dropped from 52.3 to 44.5 mpg. (Over 3 tanks.) In other words, on a 14 or 15 gallon tank, I lost something like 225 miles. Not very 'green', considering I had to burn another 5 gallons to cover that distance! When I switched back to Shell 100% diesel, not only did the car run better and have mor epower, the mileage returned. Calling biodiesel enviromentally friendly, is like saying electric cars are 'green'.....when most electricity in the country is created by burning COAL. 100 pure diesel for me, more economical, cost less, and results in less polution over the same distance as biodiesel. Plus, I won't be adding to everyones problem of higher food prices, because of the food crops being diverted to biodiesel production. Al Gore needs to quit with this enviromental garbage.....but then again, how much money has he made off 'Global warning??? (Damn, it has been one warm winter everywhere, hasn't it???)

Read the whole thing.....that was over 3 tanks of biodiesel.
I'm finding it hard to believe that by running B10 or B20 in a 15 gal. tank cost you another 5 gals. of fuel to get the same mileage.
In 15 gals. of B10 there's only 1.5 gals of B100 and B20 would be 3 gals of b100.
I've been running homsbrewed B100 for the last 5 years in 3 rigs and my mileage didn't drop as much as yours with only B10 or B20.

[erice1984]

The reason you experience a mileage decrease is the same as why ethanol returns decreased mileage.  There are less BTU's per gallon of biodiesel versus petroleum diesel.

Biodiesel pollutes less.

Biodiesel is renewable energy.

Biodiesel doesn't need to be made with fresh crop.  Almost all of us find it cheaper to visit restaurants that have to pay to have their "waste oil" removed.  We provide this service for free and put the oil through various filtering methods and produce biodiesel with it.

It is a better lubricant than petrol diesel, means increased life span of rotating components.

It is also a mild solvent and cleans out all the "dirt" in the fuel system that petrol diesel has left.  This has been concluded from people switching to biodiesel and had to change fuel filters a few times fairly close intervals and then after not having to change for a long time.

The two reason why I choose biodiesel versus petrol diesel is ONE, I am not giving money to other countries, and TWO it is cheap to make yourself.  There are also rebates from the EPA to people who venture to produce and can do it successfully bio fuels such as biodiesel.

Say what you will, but keep the flame out of an informative thread, next time create a new thread and call it "Why not to choose biodiesel."


Cited documents:

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24089.pdf

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml

Uh...the thread is supposed to be about biodiesel. I addressed biodiesel as regulated currently. I believe you are referencing WVO....waste vegetable oil. Two different subjects altogether. With WVO, the mileage is irrelevent if you're collecting it for free and processing it yourself.

You need to re-read my post, I only mention WVO as a source of oil to make biodiesel with.



Maybe you got lost someplace in that.

I was comparing the benefits of BIODIESEL versus PETRODIESEL and blends of the two B10-B20.

petroleum diesel has something like ~129,000 BTU's/gal,  B100 ~118,000BTU/gal, blends are in between.

I was trying to explain why you might have experienced a decrease in fuel mileage, being less BTU's there is less energy to do the same work, simple physics, and in the case of an engine, thermodynamics.

[trav1856]

Petrol's about 140,000 BTU per/gal
B100 is about 130,000 BTU per/gal

it's all academic, but you're correct, less BTU's means less heat, means less work performed per gallon.

[macka]

I wonder if I can bump boost on b100 as it isn't as hot and I should be able to gain some performance with more compression.

[rdezsofi]

I wonder if I can bump boost on b100 as it isn't as hot and I should be able to gain some performance with more compression.

I would definitely try it, to increase efficiency and therefore economy and/or power.....but do so with an egt gauge to correctly monitor it.

[erice1984]

see if it is just running cooler because of the less BTU's (energy per volume) than petrodiesel.  I would also look into cetane rating see if that has any effect on how the fuel performs against increased pressures in the cylinder.

[trav1856]

see if it is just running cooler because of the less BTU's (energy per volume) than petrodiesel.  I would also look into cetane rating see if that has any effect on how the fuel performs against increased pressures in the cylinder.

Pressure is directly proportionate to temperature. As temp increases, so does the pressure. If the substance you're burning has less BTU's per given volume, then it doesn't matter what it's "special sauce" is, it can only heat the given cylinder so much per cycle; and as the work performed by an engine is a function of the heat created upon combustion, then less heat means less work, which means, less bang for the buck. (figuratively speaking)

[erice1984]

see if it is just running cooler because of the less BTU's (energy per volume) than petrodiesel.  I would also look into cetane rating see if that has any effect on how the fuel performs against increased pressures in the cylinder.

Pressure is directly proportionate to temperature. As temp increases, so does the pressure. If the substance you're burning has less BTU's per given volume, then it doesn't matter what it's "special sauce" is, it can only heat the given cylinder so much per cycle; and as the work performed by an engine is a function of the heat created upon combustion, then less heat means less work, which means, less bang for the buck. (figuratively speaking)

The combustion cycle is more of an adiabatic process. Temperature and pressure decrease as volume increases.

I don't know enough about the two fuels and their differences to say anything.

I would say take a look at the performance characteristics of the two fuels.  Burn rate and cetane number may play a role in the performance.

For instance the faster a fuel burns, the less energy is wasted to heat transfer, transfer out of the system to the environment (cooling system, and exhaust). The slower it burns the less work it does mechanically, and more time for heat to leave the system into the environment.

cetane number is responsible for ignition delay.  The higher the number, the more delay it has, the higher compression you can run in the engine.  IE more BOOST.  Octane number plays the same role, ethanol over 100octane rating, gasoline, 87-93.  Top fuel dragsters run alcohol (ethanol) because they can run higher compression ratios and more 'boost.'  This is why cetane number and octane rating are desirable for performance.  If you can get premium fuel for the cost of regular why would you not do it?  You car performs better, can run more advance timing.

Thermodynamics is a LOT more complicated than just BTU's.

If your engine is running cooler and better on B100 than it did on pump Diesel (B10) then I would say you MAY have produced or acquired a higher grade fuel than what you used to get.  Which means you could probably increase boost, or advance timing or a little of both to make use of the higher grade fuel.

Note:  Cetane number doesn't matter much over 55.  Petrodiesel has a minimum cetane rating of 40 (what the pumps say).  I have read Biodiesel has a higher Cetane rating anyhow.

Whatever it may be.  I think cetane rating is responsible for cooler running engine.

[bigblockchev]

As a practical matter B100 smokes less than Petrodiesel so you can turn up your pump somewhat without getting too ridiculous. The smoke is lighter in color as well, not like the coal black you get from petro. I believe this is due to the oxygen content of bio which is not present in reg diesel. Cheers Dan 

[erice1984]

As a practical matter B100 smokes less than Petrodiesel so you can turn up your pump somewhat without getting too ridiculous. The smoke is lighter in color as well, not like the coal black you get from petro. I believe this is due to the oxygen content of bio which is not present in reg diesel. Cheers Dan 

Thanks Dan!

Yes, the oxygen content in bio would make a big difference.

Oxygenated fuels contain less carbon and more hydrogen and oxygen.  This improves combustion, and less soot produced.