100% biodiesel

[erice1984]

I am engineering minded, I like building and tinkering.  For most of my life I usually get into projects and not realize how expensive they can get, so I want to start simple (for the first in my life, lol)  I want to build something on a budget, or better yet the simplest processor to get my feet wet.  I do know this is what I would like to do, but don't want to babysit the processor the entire time.

Thanks
-Eric

[bigblockchev]

Eric I designed my processor around the simplest principals. It had to drain extremely well it had to be compact and easy to access and service. All of the piping in my processor is either vertical or on a 45 deg angle for drainage. The heater is an inline design 1 1/4 inch pipe with a 6kw water heater element so it heats my 160 L batches in less than an hour. I used the ubiquitous harbour freight clearwater pump as it is ideally suited and cheap as hell. I have never had to replace it. all the piping is metal and the valves are all ball valves. There are some pix on the biodiesel infopop forums under my username same as here. I dislike the "appleseed " processors for a variety of reasons not the least of which is that they have poor drainage. I also do all my processes in the one vessel. Processing, Washing and Drying something which preserves real estate in my garage. the whole unit is less than 40" square. You can't do that with an Appleseed no matter how hard you try. Cheers Dan

[monkey magic]

I have found it to be inaccurate, for instance they maintain that the processing formula should start at a base of 3.5 gms per litre of oil plus the additional amount obtained by titrating the oil. Most if not all other sources start with 5 gms per litre plus titration. I have used the greater amount in my processing formula for the last 5.5 yrs with excellent results and no failed batches I cannot imagine what my results would have been using with a lesser amount, probably a percentage of unconverted oil. Other sections of the website seem similarly uninformed. Cheers 

You just said that they suggest a different amount to other sites. Cant see how that makes them inaccurate or uninformed? Perhaps you may try using 3.5gms before concluding it is incorrect?

[BejamminR]

I have found it to be inaccurate, for instance they maintain that the processing formula should start at a base of 3.5 gms per litre of oil plus the additional amount obtained by titrating the oil. Most if not all other sources start with 5 gms per litre plus titration. I have used the greater amount in my processing formula for the last 5.5 yrs with excellent results and no failed batches I cannot imagine what my results would have been using with a lesser amount, probably a percentage of unconverted oil. Other sections of the website seem similarly uninformed. Cheers  

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, and you can definitely use a different process - you can't argue with results.  But I will say that you are unequivocally wrong in claiming that they are inaccurate.  Journey to Forever uses a bunch of different methods, and most of their processes are using a 2 or 3 stage reaction, where you are doing the transesterification process multiple times.  They are also operating from a European / Southeast Asian context, where they are primarily using different oil feedstocks, and where cooking processes are different.  Some of the recipes are for virgin oil (less lye required to start with) while some are for processed waste oil (usually more oil to start with).  

I'll say plainly that you have definitely made more biodiesel than I have - so without any question you've got more practical experience.  The infopop forums are a great resource, and they have a lot of really valuable info; Journey To Forever is targeted at a different audience, and it is intended to be a little more academic and process-oriented, while the infopop forums are more practical and results-oriented.  You can get equal results with processes listed in either site - for the purposes of learning the process and the science underlying the reaction, I like Journey to Forever.  In my opinion, if you're not interested in learning all of the science and in doing a variety of batches in multiple stages and basically keeping lab notes... Start with infopop.  The folks on there are generally more of a "Here's what you do, here's how you do it, here's what you need for it" sort of black box model.  Journey To Forever is more interested in discussing the science and suggesting a bunch of equipment that you don't strictly NEED to do it all (digital pH meter and such) but that can allow you to do it better, IF you are interested in the process to that degree.

Bottom line: If you're only interested in results and don't care about the process as long as it works, I'd back you up on picking infopop as your resource.  But for my part, it [EDIT: That is, JourneyToForever] gets my vote in that specific manner - not because it's better; Because it has a pretty different philosophy and reason for being there.

Hopefully that isn't seen as combative or anything - I have a different opinion than you do generally, but I don't rate Journey to Forever as better than Infopop, I just see it as a really different type of resource for people operating from a different mindset.

EDIT: Actually, I re-read your post and noticed that you said: "Journey to Forever is possibly the worst source of information on the internet for a newbie".  I was responding to it as though you had said that they were simply the worst source out there. My bad - you're probably right.  My long-winded post was basically saying that;
1. If you aren't already into chemistry and / or engineering
2. If you want to learn what to do and how to do it now and maybe later start getting into all of the background stuff about why
Infopop is better.  

I like Journey To Forever because I *wasn't* a total newbie to the science involved when I started, and I started by doing a dozen small batches at once using 3 different feedstocks (2 small batches of each) and taking pictures and notes of the process so that I could decide what worked well for what types of oils (virgin and WVO).  If that doesn't sound like you, BigBlockChev is right - Infopop will treat you better and have you getting results sooner.

[bigblockchev]

Bej thanks for the reply. I tend to be a very object oriented person, looking for results. When I was starting out I did a fair bit of research and tried to distill it down to the simplest approach which would give consistent results. I have found the devil to be in the details, small changes can screw up a batch and then you have to figure out how to recover from a tank full of Mayonaise. There were quite a few differing designs and approaches to be looked at all the way from simple barrels to pricey BioPro stainless self contained processors so I tried to look at what would work for the average fairly handy guy.   I have helped several people to design and build successful processors on a scale suitable for minimal space and time involvement. It has been an interesting hobby and I wish success to anyone trying it out.  Cheers Dan

[erice1984]

I saw your processor on biodiesel.infopop  ( http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/919605551/m/1731025531?r=1731025531#1731025531 )

I am wondering if you have made changes to it since you initially built it?  Mainly with washing the BD.  I don't really want to pump a lot of water through, would rather use other methods, and not excited about resins.   Any suggestions?

[bigblockchev]

Since that time I have increased the heater size to 6000W the key to using a larger heater is to use a smaller pipe size of 1 1/4" this keeps the velocity of the oil up which keeps the heating element cooler so it  lasts , I have not had to replace the element in the past 3 years , lots of guys complain about short heater life without understanding the problem. I have remounted the whole cone on a 40" square piece of 1" plywood , so the entire footprint is only 40" square.  I have also added a timer to the heater control circuit and am planning to add a flowswitch for triple redundant safety. This results in a shorter heating time. roughly 40-50 mins. This allows me to start the pump , then the heater. Decant my methanol  to the correct amount of about 32L per 160L batch, measure out my caustic with my handy Safeway deli scale, dissolve the caustic by rocking the container back and forth and by the time this is done the oil is heated to 125 deg F so I can add the mixture to the processor by a small pipe on the suction inlet, It takes about 15mins to add the caustic mixture. I then let the pump run to mix the batch for an hour stop the pump and wait several hours to overnight to  drain the glycerol. I then add 50L or so of water to the processor along with about 1.5 L of common vinegar to decrease the foaming of the water. I use an aquarium bubbler to gently agitate the fuel ( it is never a good idea to run the processor pump with fuel and water in the processor unless you are trying to make a mayonaise like emulsion). I let the bubbler run for a day or two , then drain the soapy water off and repeat the bubbling for another day or so , drain and repeat a third time. I find three rinses are all I need to get clean fuel. After the third rinse I drain off the water. I then start the pump and heater and heat the fuel up to 150 deg F to flash off the water I let the pump run with the heater off for several hours till the fuel temp drops to about 120 deg F then shut off the pump and let the fuel sit overnight to get all the bubbles of air out. I inspect the fuel by putting a spotlight on the bottom of the cone and looking down through it to see if there is any cloudiness . I can see through the  top to bottom about 30" distance through the fuel so it is quite clear. After inspection I pump the fuel into my storage tank through a 3 micro filter. Total time to produce maybe 4 hours over 5 days. Can't comment on other washing methods this one seems to work fine for me.   Cheers

[erice1984]

I particularly found this guy's setup interesting and he doesn't really actively wash the BD.

http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/ecosystem/state_diagram_new.htm

[bigblockchev]

Yes his design is guite good, not sure what the tank material is, if it is metal then the heater is fine where it is if the tanks if it is fiberglass then I would prefer an inline heater mounted directly above the pump. In his case the settling is crucial to producing good fuel, you wouldn't want the stuff shown on his fingers to get in your tank or injection pump. Cheers Dan

[erice1984]

Yeah, that would be bad.

I was considering using a 55 gallon drum or similar and making a cone at the bottom.  Although this would have the capacity produce about enough fuel to last me 2 months.

If I could put restrictions on size, I would have to say 2ft deep and less than 7' tall is my only restriction.  It could be 4-6ft wide no problem.

[bigblockchev]

You can make a sort of a cone in the bottom of a barrel by bashing it with a real heavy pipe or fence post. but you need a couple inches of depression to be worth doing more would be better. Or you can tilt the barrel but then it will not drain well enough to use the single vessel approach unless you are a real good welder and can make a seamless weld to the bottom corner with no low spots. Cheers Dan

[trav1856]

Checkout the Appleseed processor. Looks rough, but the actual processing that it does results in a better finished product than the commercial ones available. (and it's much cheaper) All you need is an old water tank that's fairly scale free.

[arb]

When did Europe start using 5% bio as standard? Maybe it was as early as the mk3?

Hi Mark, if you're still here after all these years since your post :-)

The EU had a very good opportunity. Back then, if they pulled a tanker up to a US terminal full of diesel fuel from a refinery anyplace in the world and pumped some gallons of US produced B100 into the mix, they got a US government subsidy of $1.00 per gallon of the final product. Since our law makers in general are mostly concerned about "the Red team VS. the Blue team" - like its a football game, they did not bother to understand what B05 vs. B95 is and did not put any limits on how low the percentage of US made biodiesel was in the mix they were giving the subsidy for. After all, there is no standard yet on what a mix of biodiesel is. Just like "synthetic blend" motor oil could be 99% synthetic or 0.01% synthetic. Not standard....

So, this scheme was called "Splash and dash" and made millions of euros for those coming here with tankers, and millions of dollars for bio-diesel makers. :-)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366601,00.html

On the other hand, I replaced the seals in my IP with Vitron seals.
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Materials_Compatibility.pdf

[rdezsofi]

In Portland, Oregon......it is mandated that all diesel is biodiesel. (B10 or B20, not sure which.) Anyway, I commute the 60 miles one-way to Portland daily, and made the awful mistake of getting fuel there a few times as a 'test.' What a waste of money. My highway mileage immediately dropped from 52.3 to 44.5 mpg. (Over 3 tanks.) In other words, on a 14 or 15 gallon tank, I lost something like 225 miles. Not very 'green', considering I had to burn another 5 gallons to cover that distance! When I switched back to Shell 100% diesel, not only did the car run better and have mor epower, the mileage returned. Calling biodiesel enviromentally friendly, is like saying electric cars are 'green'.....when most electricity in the country is created by burning COAL. 100 pure diesel for me, more economical, cost less, and results in less polution over the same distance as biodiesel. Plus, I won't be adding to everyones problem of higher food prices, because of the food crops being diverted to biodiesel production. Al Gore needs to quit with this enviromental garbage.....but then again, how much money has he made off 'Global warning??? (Damn, it has been one warm winter everywhere, hasn't it???)

[erice1984]

In Portland, Oregon......it is mandated that all diesel is biodiesel. (B10 or B20, not sure which.) Anyway, I commute the 60 miles one-way to Portland daily, and made the awful mistake of getting fuel there a few times as a 'test.' What a waste of money. My highway mileage immediately dropped from 52.3 to 44.5 mpg. (Over 3 tanks.) In other words, on a 14 or 15 gallon tank, I lost something like 225 miles. Not very 'green', considering I had to burn another 5 gallons to cover that distance! When I switched back to Shell 100% diesel, not only did the car run better and have mor epower, the mileage returned. Calling biodiesel enviromentally friendly, is like saying electric cars are 'green'.....when most electricity in the country is created by burning COAL. 100 pure diesel for me, more economical, cost less, and results in less polution over the same distance as biodiesel. Plus, I won't be adding to everyones problem of higher food prices, because of the food crops being diverted to biodiesel production. Al Gore needs to quit with this enviromental garbage.....but then again, how much money has he made off 'Global warning??? (Damn, it has been one warm winter everywhere, hasn't it???)

The reason you experience a mileage decrease is the same as why ethanol returns decreased mileage.  There are less BTU's per gallon of biodiesel versus petroleum diesel.

Biodiesel pollutes less.

Biodiesel is renewable energy.

Biodiesel doesn't need to be made with fresh crop.  Almost all of us find it cheaper to visit restaurants that have to pay to have their "waste oil" removed.  We provide this service for free and put the oil through various filtering methods and produce biodiesel with it.

It is a better lubricant than petrol diesel, means increased life span of rotating components.

It is also a mild solvent and cleans out all the "dirt" in the fuel system that petrol diesel has left.  This has been concluded from people switching to biodiesel and had to change fuel filters a few times fairly close intervals and then after not having to change for a long time.

The two reason why I choose biodiesel versus petrol diesel is ONE, I am not giving money to other countries, and TWO it is cheap to make yourself.  There are also rebates from the EPA to people who venture to produce and can do it successfully bio fuels such as biodiesel.

Say what you will, but keep the flame out of an informative thread, next time create a new thread and call it "Why not to choose biodiesel."


Cited documents:

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24089.pdf

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml