newly noisy engine

[ianders]

Hey Everyone

I think i did something bad to my engine. This is a '91 jetta Ecodiesel. Normally this is a very powerful car, easy to start and not too loud of smokey. But not things have changed. Here is what happened.

We had a cold spell up here in New England and I tried to start my car in single digit (F) temperatures. I don't have a block heater, but have never really needed it on this car. It wouldn't start an I figured that the fuel must be gelled, so I left it for a warmer day. I was able to get it running today with a lot of cranking and a few very short blasts of starting fluid, which I never use if i can avoid it. It seemed to be much harder to start than usual for 30 deg. weather. Once I got it running though, it was way louder than usual. It is much more clattery, like the normal noise has been doubled. It seems to have lost some low end power and the idle is a bit rougher, but not undrivable. I am worried about the noise though. I have not had a chance to get it into my garage yet, but I would like to crack the injector lines and check each cylinder separately, and do a compression test.

Does anyone have an idea of what I may have done?

Thanks

[R.O.R-2.0]

i think the starting fluid is what killed it. were you sure to disconnect your glow plugs before using ether?

ive killed a VW (well, Audi) with starting fluid before. basically same symptoms as your engine..

good luck with your injured engine..

[ianders]

That's what i was hoping I wouldn't hear. I didn't disconnect them, but I made sure to heat them before spraying the fluid. They should not have been energized while there was ether in the system. Did you take your engine apart after it happened? What specifically was the damage?

[Dakotakid]

In engines with this high a compression ratio, ether literally hammers the dog poop out of the rings destroying their ability to seal. Additionally, the precombustion cups can and will literally blow out of their position into the cylinder, sometimes crackiing the surrounding head material as they exit.

[Doug]

Ether will not damage your engine in small amounts. The key word is small. Putting too much in there though will cause trouble. There are ether assist systems built specifically for large diesels starting in cold climates. I have seen the timing belt jump a tooth or two with especially hard starting like what you experienced. Why don't you check your timing first before you panic? Injector checks like you suggest is a good idea too. There may be a stuck or blocked injector. It almost sounds like your fuel system froze with water. It's not the best for the injection system but only terminal over a period of time.

[coke]

Doug's timing check recommendation would be where I would start. Sounds exactly like the belt skipped a tooth.  Over advanced timing will make them incredibly difficult to start, as well. And it will cause the loud clattery crap you mentioned. That is exactly where I would start.

Verify Crankshaft and Camshaft timing at TDC. Then verify the pump sprocket mark is lined up with the mark on the backing plate.

[ianders]

Great, that is encouraging. As soon as the snow melts enough to find my garage door again that is the first thing I will check.

[rabbitman]

Ether will not damage your engine in small amounts. The key word is small. Putting too much in there though will cause trouble. There are ether assist systems built specifically for large diesels starting in cold climates. I have seen the timing belt jump a tooth or two with especially hard starting like what you experienced. Why don't you check your timing first before you panic? Injector checks like you suggest is a good idea too. There may be a stuck or blocked injector. It almost sounds like your fuel system froze with water. It's not the best for the injection system but only terminal over a period of time.

Large trucks don't generally have a prechamber either though.

[R.O.R-2.0]

That's what i was hoping I wouldn't hear. I didn't disconnect them, but I made sure to heat them before spraying the fluid. They should not have been energized while there was ether in the system. Did you take your engine apart after it happened? What specifically was the damage?

when using ether on a diesel, you are *ALWAYS* supposed to cycle right thru the glow plugs, not let them warm up at all.

spray ether, and then hit the key as fast as possible. do not let glows come on..

the glow plugs ignite the ether way too soon. alot sooner than just the compression..

[coke]

The stock glow plug relays cause the glow plugs to have power when the key is in the start position, regardless of temperature. If you don't want them to come on at all, which you shouldn't if you use ether, disconnect the relay, or the glow plug fuse. Only way to be sure.

[Doug]

Large trucks don't generally have a prechamber either though.

The stock glow plug relays cause the glow plugs to have power when the key is in the start position, regardless of temperature. If you don't want them to come on at all, which you shouldn't if you use ether, disconnect the relay, or the glow plug fuse. Only way to be sure.

I agree completely. The poor sod needs some encouragement for sure. Everyone's interpretation of a small amount is different. A direct injection diesel is definitely more robust internally. The mind can run wild with what ifs so I like to take the KISS approach looking for the obvious.

[R.O.R-2.0]

if you spray a tiny shot of ether in the intake, and then run and immediately hit the key, it wont even have time to cycle the plugs on..

cause the plugs dont burn when the engine is cranking..

and if they get power for a whole quarter of a second, that aint gonna make enough heat to matter..

like i said, i used to just give my audi a tiny shot, then run and hit they key. wouldnt let the plugs warm up. the glow light would come on just long enough to go back out, then it would fire up.

[xxkoadyxx]

compression..

[R.O.R-2.0]

what about compression?

diesels have a LOAD of it..

[coke]

The glow plug relay supplies power to the plugs any time key is turned to start. Whether it be a second or not, the longer you crank, the longer it supplies power.  Now, I got this information from my Bentley. I didn't believe it, so I tested it, and even with a warm engine my plugs had power when cranking the engine.