-
VE pump gurus/builders come inside please!
by
vwjunkie53
on 31 Dec, 2010 14:11
-
Hey folks,
I'm building up a pump for my volvo D24t using the cummins 12mm h&r along with the bigger cam plate. I got the pump all apart and have a couple kinda technical questions:
First deals with the gov shaft that I should have marked but forgot. I understand the position of the shaft has to do with fueling on startup? Is there a certain number of turns in or out that is a starting point that i can use. What will it do if its in or out too far?
Also the pin that keeps the gov assembly front sliding to the rear of the pump looks to be held in with a one time crimped on sort stamping in the side of the pump. I tapped the dowel pin out just far enough to allow the gove to slide off, but I guess I should have just taken the shaft out. I didn' think of that at the time... Its still tight, should I just tap it back in and then wipe over the outside with JB weld?
I read in diesel power sometime recently on their project rust bucket they had a 14mm h&r ve pump built, and the gov assembly was modified to allow higher fueling and still alow it to come down to idle. I assume they meant the gov assembly with the weights, not the gov on the throttle) Any insight on this or any other modifications inside the pump that will help it fuel harder? (other than the shimming the gov springs, etc). I posted a question on a couple of the dodge forums but no one had any insight as to what was done to the pump.
Any other things I can do while insdie the pump for more performance? I have read over all the ve pump build ups and hotrod tricks that I could find, but didn't come up with much other than the removing a shim from the timing spring and shimming the gov springs.
Thanks,
Jason
-
#1
by
rallydiesel
on 31 Dec, 2010 14:15
-
You could grind out the pump housing to allow for more dynamic advance travel. A lot of performance tuning of a VE pump is trial and error. Especially without a test bench.
-
#2
by
vwjunkie53
on 31 Dec, 2010 15:46
-
Interesting... I assume where the pin goes down into the barrel? Is there enough pump pressure to push the advance farther? How much material are we talking?
Jason
-
#3
by
Runt
on 31 Dec, 2010 16:05
-
Yes, where the pin from the roller carriage (I can't remember the proper name)goes into the timing piston. I believe the goal is to extend the slot to allow the pin to rotate as much as the piston can travel, as the slot is the limit right now. You can also add the TDI timing piston cover, or a spacer, to allow more piston travel. Properly adjusted, there is ample pressure to push the timing piston further over. it is also possible to change the spring(s) behind the piston, to change how fast the advance comes on, as well as adding or removing springs.
Caveat: I have not actually set up and run a custom pump yet, everything stated here is from dissecting drawings, books, what bosch manuals I have been able to find, and other posters' wisdom.
That said, if you have the pump apart, carefully cycle every part and compare to whatever documentation you have available. Most of it is not overly difficult to follow once you can see it. Then consider what you think your needs are, and ensure that you are providing adequate travel/movement for those things. If you have a 3000 rpm redline, you will not need as much advance travel as a 6000 rpm redline. OTOH, with the 12mm head, I would expect that you will need to ensure that you have the injection collar finely adjusted to ensure that it can travel to the minimum injection point, to prevent hanging idle. If you read the m-TDI FAQ, there is some commentary in there on what is sometimes needed to match the proper collar travel to a different head. This should at least guide you in your examination of your setup.
-
#4
by
vwjunkie53
on 31 Dec, 2010 16:32
-
Interesting, I'll look into the collar travel. I have a softer timing spring I found out of another pump, and am removing the extra shim. I'm also on the hunt for cummins delivery valves.
Jason
-
#5
by
vwjunkie53
on 02 Jan, 2011 09:57
-
I read through the mtdi thread, a lot to take in there! I'm wondering how much of those modifications apply to what I'm doing though... Some of that stuff seemed to be a concern because of using idi pump parts on a direct injected engine and the difference in how they run, such as the cam disc having a sharper profile for a shorter injection duration, etc... Should I stay away from the cummins cam disc and just use the 12mm pump head? Do I need to look at all those modifications for the pump to run correctly just with the bigger head?
Also, it sounds like the TDI timing stuff is a nice upgrade, is there a source on getting just those parts or do I need to find a core pump?
Thanks for all the info,
Jason
-
#6
by
vwjunkie53
on 06 Jan, 2011 10:18
-
No one? I'm about to order that stuff but if the cam plate is not recomended I won't waste my $$ on it...
Jason
-
#7
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 06 Jan, 2011 10:25
-
usually you stick the cam plate in ther for the type of injection your using.. so i would stick with the IDI cam plate if you are using said pump on an IDI engine.
-
#8
by
vwjunkie53
on 06 Jan, 2011 15:48
-
I was having a feeling that would be the recomendation with the injection differences between IDI and DI along with the associated cam disk profiles...
So that being said, anyone know of a higher lift IDI cam disk thats for a 6 cylinder application?
Thanks,
Jason
-
#9
by
snakemaster
on 07 Jan, 2011 15:21
-
what power you after , you going to tow , race ?
-
#10
by
dankcorey22
on 07 Jan, 2011 21:39
-
very interesting! do you have any pics or videos of what your doing? if so will you post them?
-
#11
by
vwjunkie53
on 09 Jan, 2011 17:30
-
No pics of the build of the pump yet..
The pump is going in my Volvo 760 with D24T. Its not a tow vehicle, I drive it daily and take it to the track here and there for fun. I also like to mess with the local diesel truck guys. I guess you could say I'm going after overall power mostly, for street/strip fun.
Jason
-
#12
by
dankcorey22
on 09 Jan, 2011 22:17
-
sweet
i cant wait for the pics