excessive fuel smoke in colder weather ?

[2strokesmoke]

Hi guys,
My 82 Caddy with 1.6NA doesn't seem to like the colder weather-LOL
It has been in the 30'sF here maybe reaching 40F mid day
Sence the colder weather,I have been getting excessive fuel smoke and the engine is much louder-even when fully warmed up (195F) and even after a 45 minute drive on the highway.
When the engine is cold..the clatter could wake the dead !
Is this normal ?
Compression is good
glowplugs are good (6 month old duratherms)
Injectors  are good  (3 month old bosh remans)
IP timing set at .095
fuel screw was turned up slightly
Has GOV mod
No fuel leaks
No air bubbles.
It starts a little rough (for maybe 5-10 seconds) but cycling the glowplugs 2X helps alot

The engine didn't smoke in the warmer weather,unless I floored it
I have been using the same fuel and conditioner all along
Any thoughts greatly appreciated !

[R.O.R-2.0]

my car has been doing the same thing..

runs rough for a few seconds when cold..

same specs as your car, fairly fresh glows
pretty fresh injectors
brand new injection pump timed to .95
cranked up fuel
and gov mod

maybe a tiny air leak i was thinking?

[wolf_walker]

Other than the white cold-smoke, same here, same setup mostly, my motor probly has more miles on it though.  Clatters like death, not too bad warm but still there.  Funny how ambient temp effects them even when warmed up.

[2strokesmoke]

I had a little time today to investigate--and sure enough--air bubbles in the clear fuel line.
I have replaced all the fuel hoses (6-8 months ago) and just went over them all ,re-tightening all the clamps.
I think the fuel hose going INTO the fuel filter,is the culprit(the one hose I hadn't replaced)
It has a small damp spot,about 2" before the filter.
This would explain the rough starts in the morning.
Would it explain the fuel smoke as well??
Can I cut the hose crimp off at the banjo fitting and replace the hose using a standard clamp ??
Thanks,Mike

[wolf_walker]

Wish mine was air leaks.  I think it's the pump, it's ancient, the internal pressure is on the high side at lower RPM to get it near in spec at higher RPM.  The rough starts are one thing, but the UNHOLY clatter till the temp gauge is a quarter up is another.  Shame too, runs to well warm.

[ToddA1]

Hmmmm.... my 82 is hard to start unless plugged in, and white smokes like crazy, until it warms up a bit.  It also jerks abruptly if I try and drive it until it warms up a bit.  It's the jerking, that I find odd.

When warm, there doesn't seem to be any smoke at all.  New Duraterms were installed, when "pimping" the wiring, rebuilt injectors were installed, valves were adjusted in the Summer, and the pump is set to 1.00mm.  New copper washers and fuel hoses were installed, this Summer...  I recall the car doing the same last Winter, but that was my first Winter with a diesel, so I assumed it was the norm.

My 81 truck starts like a dream without the advance knob pulled, and has none of the hesitation/jerking issues, with about 60K more miles.  I never checked compression on either one, but since the car doesn't smoke when warm, and the truck does (a little), I'd think the truck is worse for wear.  I've done absolutely nothing to the truck other than a fuel and air filter.  I need to stop procrastinating and do the belt and tensioner.

Would a bit more advance on the car help?

-Todd

[R.O.R-2.0]

Hmmmm.... my 82 is hard to start unless plugged in, and white smokes like crazy, until it warms up a bit.  It also jerks abruptly if I try and drive it until it warms up a bit.  It's the jerking, that I find odd.

When warm, there doesn't seem to be any smoke at all.  New Duraterms were installed, when "pimping" the wiring, rebuilt injectors were installed, valves were adjusted in the Summer, and the pump is set to 1.00mm.  New copper washers and fuel hoses were installed, this Summer...  I recall the car doing the same last Winter, but that was my first Winter with a diesel, so I assumed it was the norm.

My 81 truck starts like a dream without the advance knob pulled, and has none of the hesitation/jerking issues, with about 60K more miles.  I never checked compression on either one, but since the car doesn't smoke when warm, and the truck does (a little), I'd think the truck is worse for wear.  I've done absolutely nothing to the truck other than a fuel and air filter.  I need to stop procrastinating and do the belt and tensioner.

Would a bit more advance on the car help?

-Todd

im thinking a little more advance on the 82 would help. 1.0mm is a bit high already, but if it wants more to start and run right, then give a little more timing.. it really does sound retarded tho.. the white smoke and jerkyness bring back memories of my old stock 1.5D with really stupid timing.. i timed it by ear, advanced it a BUNCH. then it ran pretty decent.

[ToddA1]

im thinking a little more advance on the 82 would help. 1.0mm is a bit high already, but if it wants more to start and run right, then give a little more timing.. it really does sound retarded tho.. the white smoke and jerkyness bring back memories of my old stock 1.5D with really stupid timing.. i timed it by ear, advanced it a BUNCH. then it ran pretty decent.
[/quote]

I tried doing by ear, but wasn't doing too well.  I was too retarded, that way.  I noticed that the car would have what sounded like a miss, unless the cold start was pulled; it also smoked when warm.

Did your car jerk/buck when warm or just cold?

I'll try going to 1.05mm or a tad higher.

-Todd

[8v-of-fury]

You can try something to see if maybe your car could do with a bit more advance really easily. Next Time you go to start it, pull the cold start out before you attempt to start it and see if it cranks slower then with it pushed in. If it does not, then you could easily stand for another 0.05mm of advance or more. With my engine I have timed it by ear (while warm) and then i got the gauge out to see where I was.. I was at 1.03-4mm of advance. I am at the point that where when pulling the cold start prior to starting the engine results in slower cranking. This happens because where I have it, it is right on the line of being injected to early. With the cold start out the fuel is coming in to early and is fighting the piston on its way up on its compression stroke.

HOWEVER! when cold starting (-15C/5F) even with my static advance set to 1.03-4mm after it has been started it really loves the cold start being pulled.. which doesn't really make sense to me.. if its injecting to early to start properly.. how can it run better? oh well lol.

I wanna say it could use a bit more advance, and you might have a slight fuel leak somewhere.. 

[R.O.R-2.0]

im thinking a little more advance on the 82 would help. 1.0mm is a bit high already, but if it wants more to start and run right, then give a little more timing.. it really does sound retarded tho.. the white smoke and jerkyness bring back memories of my old stock 1.5D with really stupid timing.. i timed it by ear, advanced it a BUNCH. then it ran pretty decent.

I tried doing by ear, but wasn't doing too well.  I was too retarded, that way.  I noticed that the car would have what sounded like a miss, unless the cold start was pulled; it also smoked when warm.

Did your car jerk/buck when warm or just cold?

I'll try going to 1.05mm or a tad higher.

-Todd
[/quote]

yea, it would buck, and miss at idle pretty bad.. then we advanced it and it got better. no white smoke or miss at idle.

[ToddA1]

yea, it would buck, and miss at idle pretty bad.. then we advanced it and it got better. no white smoke or miss at idle.

OK, so yesterday I bumped the pump timing to 1.07mm.  Unusually warm yesterday, so I dismissed yesterday's easy starts.

Tonight it was 27* with a windchill of 13*F.  Car was unplugged and sat for about 2 hours, so I knew it was cold.  It started right up, with no crazy smoke of missing; the bucking is gone, too!  It's slightly more clattery, but I'll deal with it in the cold.  This makes me think the truck could stand a tad more advance.

This car never Winter started like this, or did I think it could.  I just assumed that's how an old diesel was in the cold.  Best part is that my remote starter will be usable.  I'm curious what it'll be like when the car sits in a parking lot at work all day, but I'll see.  Worst case scenario would be bump the timing to 1.10mm or put the car on a 2 hour start cycle.

Thanks!

-Todd

[R.O.R-2.0]

good to hear that worked out for ya!

[ToddA1]

I guess it just shows you that as old as these cars are, VW's pump specs are just recommendations, at this point.  Car was always fine when it's warm out, and I was using the performance spec of 1.00mm. 

Wondering how far I could actually advance it.

-Todd

[R.O.R-2.0]

ive heard of people (maybe Smokey Eddy) running like 1.25mm of advance.. just some ridiculous high numbers..

[8v-of-fury]

Yeah k3vo, I think it was Eddy who had to bump his way up.. I can't remember why it had to be that way though. This was on his 1.6/1.9 Halfbreed, did he have to time it that high on the AAZ? He used the same pump and injectors if I'm not mistaken.