So i bought a little gizmo today...

[maxfax]

I think I remember reading back in the days when HHO (or hydrogen) boosters were all the craze that they were virtually ineffective on an IDI diesel versus a DI engine..   The theory behind them was the the HHO helped break down the fuel for better combustion..  Since the HHO was ingested into the engine via the intake and the fuel in an IDI diesel is injected into the pre combustion chamber the two never really got a chance to mingle..   Same theory should apply here.. 

[rabbitman]

Im glad to see that everyone here knows more about a product that none of you have heard of until now. I did not claim i new it all im simply putting out the facts or information i have been provided, i could easily be wrong. But seeing how you all know exactly what is in the device and exactly how it works, lets just put it to shame right?

I have invested too much time and energy to share this product and defend its capabilities for you guys to just shoot it down. And because of this wasted effort on my part as mentioned earlier. End of discussion. You guys can continue to guess how it works and assume that it doesnt work, if you insist. Enjoy.

I fail to see why you post about this thing, using it on an engine that's not broke in to boot, and get so bent out of shape from people asking questions about it/joking about it/mocking it or whatever.

What did you expect, everyone to go order one? As you said so yourself, none of us heard about it until now. So can we try to figure it out? Some people like to know how stuff works and some just buy what someone else figured out. Go cheer up.

PS. If it works nobody can just "shoot it down" without proving that it doesn't work correct? So, prove that it works.

[rabbitman]

I think I remember reading back in the days when HHO (or hydrogen) boosters were all the craze that they were virtually ineffective on an IDI diesel versus a DI engine..   The theory behind them was the the HHO helped break down the fuel for better combustion..  Since the HHO was ingested into the engine via the intake and the fuel in an IDI diesel is injected into the pre combustion chamber the two never really got a chance to mingle..   Same theory should apply here..

Maxfax, afaik most of the air gets shoved into the prechamber anyways though so it should have worked just fine......I tried one that I made and it was a total failure. It bubbled and all but didn't make a bit of difference.
I saw an ad on ebay of a guy selling a two jar setup and claimed he used it in a diesel rabbit and got 70mpg, I thought it was funny.

A friend of ours who has a science brain said that there's no way to get better mileage out of HHO since you're using the alt to convert it making it a loss. I think it would be different if you used an HHO tank though.

[maxfax]

Maxfax, afaik most of the air gets shoved into the prechamber anyways though so it should have worked just fine......I tried one that I made and it was a total failure. It bubbled and all but didn't make a bit of difference.
I saw an ad on ebay of a guy selling a two jar setup and claimed he used it in a diesel rabbit and got 70mpg, I thought it was funny.

A friend of ours who has a science brain said that there's no way to get better mileage out of HHO since you're using the alt to convert it making it a loss. I think it would be different if you used an HHO tank though.

I just dug up the article..  I will correct myself..  It is not as effective on an IDI engine versus a DI engine.. Same reasoning as above..   There is a local fellow that has written a few books on fuel economy, and what works, what doesn't..  He built an HHO thingy and used it on a DI diesel on an irrigation pump..  It did indeed make a small improvement in fuel usage, however he had about 75 mason jars bubbling..  And they were powered by a separate power source..  If they had been powered from the same engine I would guess that the improvement would be gone.. Now if a PMA had been involved........

But I digress, I'd love to see some test results on the $200 gizmo..

[mystery3]

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to refining petroleum but the basic refining process is akin to distillation whereas heat and pressure are combined with various chemical additives to turn crude oil into various grades of petrochemicals including but not limited to bunker fuel, heating oil, automotive fuels etc. A tremendous amount of heat is wasted and dangerous substances and waste products are produced during the refining process. Your "gizmo" supposedly does this with very little energy input. Is the inventor of this product being considered for the nobel prize?

Do you have an electric "supercharger?" The type advertised a few years ago purported to increase fuel mileage by %15.

[VW Smokr]

Gotta say it... first saw those in the late 1960s, sold by Warshawsky/J.C. Whitney as "The Moleculator". The newer ones are prettier, with the anodizing & all, however, so... who knows... ? Consumer Reports tested them & a bunch of other 'gizmos' that claimed miraculous results, but got zippo, zilch, nada for power, fuel economy, or emissions improvements. Hope I'm wrong. Good luck.


J.R.
SoCal

[R.O.R-2.0]

Samauri, you're getting a little sensitive.
 However:
First you claim to know nothing, then you spurt out little odments of profound theory.
Fractional distillation removes the more volatile compounds first.
Doesn't diesel not only ignite under compression easier than petroleum, due to it's lower ignition temperature, but it also contains more energy than petroleum, making it preferable for CI engines?

If I get it right you are using this black box on your vehicle, whilst you are still breaking it in. Surely the fact that you are breaking it in can lead to changes in the efficiency, and temperatures as the rings settle down, and compression improves.

If you are also suggesting that this thing can convert low level energy vapour into a potential 30% improvement in fuel economy, not on a petroleum based vehicle, but on a naturally efficient burning CI engine, then I think you are in error.

By implication, if you have a healthy engine, then with minimal blowby you'll get  zero improvement... So it's for crap engines

im thinking this is why he is noticing all the improvements.. new engine, still breaking in..

and just like stated.. if you have a super healthy engine, you wont notice a change..

i bet your engine ran cooler EGTs because the rings sealed better, and were not pushing soo much oil vapor into the intake.. engine oil introduced to the intake will make the engine run so hot that it will melt the tips right off the glow plugs..

sorry. im not saying you are wrong or right.. but i bet your improvements are because diesels take soo damn long ti actually break in and seal up good..

i wouldnt notice much of a difference in my diesel.. it doesnt have any blow by until you spool it up.

[Kudagra]

JC Whitney is correct. These have been sold for decades and I would bet that not one gallon of fuel has been saved JUST because of this device.

I have a sneaking suspicion that, because of the OPs defensiveness and strangely intimate knowledge of this particular product, that he has a financial reason for posting this.

Follow the money.

If this was true they would be on factory cars. If this was true these same manufacturers would be researching the hell out of this to eek out the fractional gains reported by this item. ALL OF THEM! Toyota primarily. This isnt because they want to save the planet..its because the gubment mandates these lofty goals. They dont WANT to change and make better vehicles...they are forced to other wise they pay big fines. Money.

Now you might say..ok..they are in bed with the oil companies so they will not..BS I say. The name of the game is MPG. This might have been true 30 years ago but with the world oil markets and China's car sales boom the, and fuel prices going up..if you can make your car get one mile per gallon better its an edge. Money

Now why would the OP care SO much that people are not talking positive about this product he says he paid $200 for without ANY hard facts or proven results done in a laboratory. Why would he be so defensive? Money.

Yes..In short..Im saying its a sham product just like all the same before it for the past 50 years. Magnets that align the molecules in your fuel. Silly vanes that break off and fall into your intake. All Crap.

I can just as easily explain any of the OPs claims of improvement without any proof...and they will be just as viable as possible truth.

[maxfax]

JC Whitney is correct. These have been sold for decades and I would bet that not one gallon of fuel has been saved JUST because of this device.

I KNEW this thing sounded familiar...

I have a sneaking suspicion that, because of the OPs defensiveness and strangely intimate knowledge of this particular product, that he has a financial reason for posting this.

My thoughts exactly......

[TDsamurai]

The my defensive additude is based on being told that it doesnt work when i have seen immediate gains. I would never accept money to try and sell a illigitimate product. Im glad to see your guys are still trying to make up a bunch of *** though keep going though im fascinated. 

[maxfax]

We were fascinated too, with hopes of hearing something to substantiate the claims of this device.. Then you started getting defensive...     Prove us wrong and give us some solid data to chew on..

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

The my defensive additude is based on being told that it doesnt work when i have seen immediate gains. I would never accept money to try and sell a illigitimate product. Im glad to see your guys are still trying to make up a bunch of *** though keep going though im fascinated. 

So,
Do you think that based upon what you say/know/think, this device would be able to work, if rings are good, and blowby minimal?

[79rabbit4dr]

... explain how a refinery works...

I've got an awesome 40 minute Chrysler Master Tech video called Fuel Basics that explains a lot about fuels in general. I'd love to post it somehow but youtube only allows 15 minutes and I don't have any video editing software, if anyone has a suggestion, I can make it available. It goes through the distillation process, additives, etc. really good stuff.

http://player.vimeo.com/video/16837107

This is a pretty good graphic and basically the same one they use in the video.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/flash/oil-refining.swf

[Kudagra]

http://www.chevron.ca/operations/refining/refineryworks.asp

Google is an amazing thing.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/1802932

[TDsamurai]

The my defensive additude is based on being told that it doesnt work when i have seen immediate gains. I would never accept money to try and sell a illigitimate product. Im glad to see your guys are still trying to make up a bunch of *** though keep going though im fascinated. 

So,
Do you think that based upon what you say/know/think, this device would be able to work, if rings are good, and blowby minimal?

I do not know how it works forsure and ill repeat that again, however i think it is very realistic that it could work. aside from the gains ive noticed personally as yes it could be due to break in, i think it is very possible that it could help atomize the oil into a much more burnable vapour. you do not need blow by to get oil vapour from the crankcase, lobes of the cam stir mist the oil quite a bit. and i think this could be refered to almost a catayst in that it could easily aid in atomization. am i wrong to even think that the thinner the oil the better it can mix with the diesel and the cleaner it will burn? Im not saying im a genius, and other than a few quotes from the engineer im just trying to make sense of this thing as best i can.