stopped while running, now no start - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• stopped while running, now no start by horita on 30 Oct, 2010 21:49
• Hi everyone,
  
  I've lurked here for quite a while, but never posted.
  
  I changed the head on my 1.9L TD a while back - figured out that 1.9L timing was done differently than a 1.6L, and got all running very nicely.
  After a few days of excellent running, had the car hesitate on the highway at the same time I heard a brief noise like sucking air.  A few miles further, this occured again and the engine stopped running.  It seemed like it wasn'g getting fuel.  I towed it home.
  Since then, I haven't been able to start it.  The engine will turn over nicely, but it never catches, or even seems close to catching.  I've checked the timing since I'd played with it recently and I thought that possibly I'd slipped a tooth, or even that the crank nose had gone.  But the timing looks fine.  Cam lobes are up, the cam slot is correct, and the notch on the IP lines up with the locking hole properly.
  Since then, I've added clear hose to my input and return fuel lines.  After a fair amount of cranking, they now seem bubble free, and fuel is definately running to the IP and back through the return line.  If I crack the injector lines, they will get damp while cranking, but not really wet - it doesn't seem like they are getting much pressure.
  So am I looking at a bad IP?  Do they just go like this?  I'm relatively new to vw diesels, though I've had other diesels in the past.  Any advice would be appreciated.
  
  Dale Horita
  '96 1.9L TD in a '94 Suzuki Sidekick
  
• #1 by Doug on 31 Oct, 2010 06:21
• First check that your fuel shut off solenoid is receiving voltage when the ignition is on. It may be as simple as a broken conductor inside the wire insulator jacket at the connector. Then you may have to remove the solenoid to see whether it is opening fully when activated. I have seen them hang up as in get stuck in the closed position.
• #2 by horita on 31 Oct, 2010 09:40
• Hi,
  
  Thanks for your quick response.  The solenoid clicks when power is applied.  Regardless, I took it out, and removed the spring and plunger so that I could know that the solenoid wasn't the issue.  Still no start.
  
  Thanks
  Dale
• #3 by Smokey Eddy on 31 Oct, 2010 12:48
• injection pumps don't typically "go" like an exploding transmission does unless something snapped inside it which ive never heard of before. Take the hard lines off the injectors (or the pump, which ever you find easier) and turn the pump (either by cranking or by hand - careful  not to skip the belt - best to turn from the crank). Look to see if there is any diesel coming out of the lines. if not, check that you can draw fuel from the line going to the pump from the fuel filter. It will be the one closest to  you & closest to the belt. A clogged fuel filter can starve the pump. Air getting drawn into the line by the suction of the pump can also give a starve situation.
• #4 by horita on 31 Oct, 2010 18:29
• I loosened all the high pressure lines at the injector and turned the engine over.  I get fuel at all of them.  I would have expected to see evidence of some pressure - spraying or something, where what I see is more like seepage.  What is normal?
  
  I'll change the fuel filter after I get one tomorrow just to rule that out.
  
  Thanks
  Dale
• #5 by Vincent Waldon on 31 Oct, 2010 18:43
• Seepage is normal... at cranking speeds (or idle) there's very little fuel being injected.
• #6 by Doug on 31 Oct, 2010 18:50
• So if you are positive that fuel delivery is not the problem then check the glow bus for voltage when starting. If there is voltage then check the current draw with an inline ammeter or a clip on style for about 50 amps draw. If neither is present then check the glow bus fuse or fusable link for continuity. Replace if it is open. If voltage is present at the first glow plug terminal then you probably have 2 or more open circuit glow plugs. Replace them all.
• #7 by horita on 01 Nov, 2010 16:28
• Hi everyone,
  
  Couldn't get a 'filter til Wednesday, so I won't be changing it until later.  I am getting fuel to the injectors though, so I don't think that's the issue.
  
  Re glow plugs:  I was running when the engine stopped - so I don't think glow plugs are the issue.  Also, with continued cranking, I should be able to start anyway.  I actually have new glow plugs to put in, and will do so, but I don't think that's it.
  
  A wind storm last night left trees all over my driveway, so I need to deal with that first.  If there's time after that I'm going to confirm correct timing with my dial guage, and then start the glow plugs.
  
  Thanks for the suggestions so far.
  
  Dale
  
• #8 by 8v-of-fury on 02 Nov, 2010 05:18
• Interesting, When it stopped on the highway.. did you try and restart it then? I assume you would have, because I know I'd try everything before paying for a tow Only reason I ask is, if you tried it on the highway.. it would have been hot enough to reignite with out the use of glow-plugs.
  
  Your profile shows that your in Vanderhoof B.C, and the weather network shows it is hovering around the 0 degree mark. You will most certainly NEED all four glow-plugs to start at this temperature . You only need three things to fire an IDI diesel off; Heat, Air and Fuel. You have already confirmed Fuel, and unless you are holding your hand over the intake on the turbo you've got the Air too. IDI's need lotsa heat to start due to their injection design, and even on three good plugs and an O.K battery its still gonna be a bear to start at this temp. Get another car to jump the battery (to maintain high amperage), Try manually jumping your glow-plugs for 5-10 seconds, and crank it over and see what happens. Chances are that if your plugs are (or one or two of them are dead) you will need to crank crank crank crank. No more than 30 second bursts with 15 seconds in between to give the starter a cool-down.
  
  Also here is another line of thought, upon your previous cranking.. has there been any smoke coming from the tailpipe at all?
  
  Good-luck with the brush clearing
• #9 by horita on 02 Nov, 2010 20:35
• Hi 8v
  I did try to restart on the highway.  Ended up walking several km home.  At the time I assumed fuel - no smoke then or later.  Last night I worked on it some more, and changed all the glow plugs to Bosch Duratherms - though I'm pretty sure that they aren't the immediate issue, winter is coming.  I have fuel to the injectors.  Since Vince W tells me that I was wrong to expect fuel to "squirt" and show similar signs of pressure, I decided to rethink assumptions, and look at timing again.
  
  Earlier I had checked timing - TDC, cam lobes up, cam locked, and pin in the locking hole on the IP.  The belt was tight enough (by the 45 degree test).  In the past though, I could get this same arrangement and be off 1 notch on the timing belt - so possibly it had slipped.  One of the reasons I had thought fuel was the lack of smoke of any kind - no indication that the engine was getting fuel.  If the timing was off enough would it have the same effect? 
  
  So I tested with a dial guage, and got a reading of about .35mm - very retarded.  I now think that the belt must have jumped a notch.  I've moved the IP pulley one notch but haven't had a chance to get further.  Big wind a couple of nights ago - trees down on my driveway, trees down on my fences, and it's term end - so lots of little Physics kiddies needing review worksheets etc.  With luck, I'll get a bit more time tomorrow to check timing and try to fire it up.
  
  Dale
• #10 by horita on 03 Nov, 2010 19:58
• Hi everyone,
  
  Got it running by adjusting timing, so it must have slipped a tooth on the timing belt.  Is this a common problem with these?  I think that my belt was adjusted pretty much as per the Bentley manual.  How would I prevent slipping a tooth in the future?
  
  Thanks again
  Dale
• #11 by Patrick on 04 Nov, 2010 03:23
• Looks to me like you checked the cam against the fuel pump, but not the crank... what's chances that the infamous crank pulley problem is what you're looking at?
• #12 by Doug on 04 Nov, 2010 05:57
• Once upon a time I too had intermittent no run like yours until it quit outright on the road one day. After a tow home it was discovered to be a broken conductor to the shut off solenoid on fuel pump. The  plastic insulation looked fine but the wire inside was broken. Cut it off clean an inch back from the termination and crimp on a new spade connector to be sure.
• #13 by horita on 04 Nov, 2010 08:39
• Hi all,
  
  Since I have the 1.9 in a Suzuki Sidekick, I can't check crank timing at the flywheel, but I did place a pointer on the crank pulley and mark accordingly - so I did actually check cam against crank as well.
  
  My wiring to the stop solenoid is relatively new since I had to wire it from scratch when I swapped in the diesel.
  
  Thanks for your input.  This forum has been a great help - not just now, but throughout the swap of the 1.9 into my Sidekick.
  
  Dale