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Problems with newly rebuilt engine,, need suggestions
by
dropdtop
on 28 Sep, 2010 17:37
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Just rebuilt my 1992 Jetta 1.6TD,, found out I had 2 bent rods and a leaking HG.
New rods, Brand new head, new injectors, 1.9AAZ headgasket, ARP studs and the initiall timing set to 1.05mm
Car will run with cold start lever pulled, according to gauge it advances the pump to 1.45mm (just wanted to see with a gauge)
I have verified twice that the initial timing is 1.05mm
With the cold start pushed it it idles very rough and plumes of black smoke come out the exhaust and pretty much dies.
I dont know whether to try advancing the pump by ear but would really like to find out why I'm having this problem.
Thanks in advance,
Brad M
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#1
by
dropdtop
on 28 Sep, 2010 17:43
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UPDATE:
Checked all glow plugs (they are new) and are all turning on.
Pulled injectors and seals were working good nothing leaking past and the compression test was balanced accross the board.
I actually threw everything together and advanced the pump to initial 1.40mm which is what the cold start does,, it still runs crappy but better,, and with the cold start lever pulled it even fires up quicker.
The thing I noticed is that above a estimated 2000 rpm it falls on its face (either at 1.05 or 1.40mm) and just seems to missfire and throw plumes of grey smoke out exhaust manifold (exhaust not hooked up)
Ive gotten it to idle nice with the cold start lever pulled out and backing off the fuel screw,, just seems like the more fuel you throw at it the worse it gets??
Another symptom I have noticed is I can rev the car and each time I rev it it gets smoother and the exhaust starts the clear up and then after I let off it it will idle nice for 2 seconds and then start missing and running like crap again.
Have not seen nothing like it myself.
Any ideas?
Thanks
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#2
by
theman53
on 28 Sep, 2010 19:11
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I timed an N/A 180 out once and it ran similar to that. Check that if you aren't sure, but the woodruff key should be at about the 10:00 position when at TDC. All you have to do is take that nut off and you'll see it. Mine smoked grey all the time as well.
When you did all the work for the head gasket did you bore it or just throw rings in. What were the #s on compression, I think you just said they were even.
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#3
by
Vincent Waldon
on 28 Sep, 2010 19:18
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Yuppers... as an interweb guess it sounds 180 out to me as well.... easy enough to do with the two-hole sprocket?
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#4
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 28 Sep, 2010 19:18
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I've never gotten more than 0.25mm max from cold cable pulled.
And thought that was high sided.
Wild that yours pulls .40mm
Like theman53 and Vincent are saying -
Do your initial timing parameters again (camslide, pump lock, TDC) and double check where the keyway is located on the Inj Pump at that time. The keyway should be pointing back more towards the engine - not towards the radiator.
There is also an index mark on the lip of the Inj Pump sprocket that lines up at about 12 o'clock with an index mark on the timing cover back plate.
Its possible to have the Inj Pump 180* out of time, and still run, but poorly. Maybe you'll be lucky and thats all that is the matter.
When you Zero Out your dial gauge in the flat zone - pull the stem out some and push it back in - to make sure it hasn't ramped or rolled up past contact with the plunger. Then zero it out.
Do the same lash removal when taking your timing reading.
Physically make sure the dial stem is contacting the plunger when getting your measurement/reading.
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#5
by
dropdtop
on 28 Sep, 2010 20:06
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Thanks guys I'll check the 180* out thing when I get home from work.. problem with that theory is I think my pump pulley only has the 1 hole that allows the pin to get inserted into it? have to look at it again.
Also,, the shortblock was rebuilt before approx 10K miles ago and used a bottle brush to hone and new rings.. it was all good before,, just needed to replace the 2 bent rods. all pistons .89 out the hole now and a 2 notch gasket was used.
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#6
by
dropdtop
on 30 Sep, 2010 17:48
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Checked the pump and with the engine at TDC,, the keyway is pointing torward the engine and there is only one hole in the pulley to align the pump,, cant see anyway i can get this 180* off unless I threw the locking pin in the larger holes.
Took the injectors to a diesel shop who cleaned and pop tested both my old injectors and the new ones I bought,, and all of them tested fine and he said were great.
I reset the pump to 1.10mm and tightened the pump and rechecked and it checked at 1.05-1.07mm both times I checked it.
Guy at diesel shop said to get that old fuel the heck outa there and said to also run 2 gallons of kerosene along with 5 gallons of new diesel to clean the pump. he said if it sat that log the pump may have varnised up and the timing circuit could be sticking.
Hope some of this helps as I'm running outa ideas.
Brad
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#7
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 30 Sep, 2010 20:45
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Checked the pump and with the engine at TDC,, the keyway is pointing torward the engine and there is only one hole in the pulley to align the pump,, cant see anyway i can get this 180* off unless I threw the locking pin in the larger holes.
Just curious if you verified the cam too, when you set crank to TDC. Both the lobes for #1 should be pointing upwards, and the camslide lock should slip right in the rear cam slot.
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#8
by
rabbitman
on 30 Sep, 2010 22:53
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Do you have the proper OUT bolt in the IP outlet? The falls-on-its-face part tells me the timing advance isn't working right.
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#9
by
theman53
on 01 Oct, 2010 05:24
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How long has it been since the IP was running? It could be bad fuel in it or gummed up vanes as well as the out bolt.
Also, what Vince said about the cam.
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#10
by
dropdtop
on 01 Oct, 2010 06:12
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Thanks for the advice guys.. check the cam and its correct and the outbolt is the same as when it ran before (never removed)
its been 3 years sitting outside so yes I assume varish in the pump.
The good news is that after checking all that and with fresh fuel in the tank! she starts up like she is supposed to and idles with the correct pump timing. so it was bad fuel all along,, some of it was brown and looked like oil! not good
however now i have a new problem is the cylinder #2 seems to have low compression and is not firing and I have a large amount of blowby,,, the cylinder will kick in when I get the revs at her but stops at idle.
I'm wondering if there is a problem with the rings that I didnt know about,, cylinders #2 and #3 were not removed during the rebuild since they had new rings since I did the bottom half 5 years ago,,, I shoulda pulled em out and now I'm kickin myself for it.
I'm begining to wonder is the PO (my dad) overheated and collapsed the rings.
Gonna run it for a bit hoping its just gummed up rings. I remember a product they used to sell called RESTORE that supposedly helped restore lost compression,, might try some of that for a miracle cure.
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#11
by
theman53
on 01 Oct, 2010 07:03
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Run it with a load on it at all possible times and keep the synthetic out of it for several thousand miles. That will help the rings if there is any helping them now.
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#12
by
dropdtop
on 01 Oct, 2010 14:13
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Well its running alot better now,, I think I found my miss as it looks like one of the injector lines is leaking at the injector cause its wet,, tried swaping that injector and it ran a bit better but was still leaking,, would explain the hard to start condition cause air is finding its way back into the bump and loosing prime,, when she fires up she FIRES up!
Its getting better hopefully a new set of lines will do the trick!
BTW just for good meaure I changed the oil with 15W-40 and threw a can of RESTORE into it.
Still need a new alternator and fan and to get those damn spring clips on the exhaust before I can drive her.
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#13
by
taterade
on 08 Oct, 2010 20:37
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BTW just for good meaure I changed the oil with 15W-40 and threw a can of RESTORE into it.
you can also put in a high zinc additive to help seat the rings properly. redline oil has an additive that is great for that
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#14
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 09 Oct, 2010 04:43
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I agree with the Baron, that's a lot of advance:
0.4mm :
.4 x40 thou is 16thou. @ Operating point, each 5 thou is 2,73 deg.
Thus, advance is over 8 degrees.... 