Author Topic: Smoke, Help (Read 5000 times)

lesharoturbo · « **on:** December 27, 2005, 08:09:29 am »

First of all, I would like to thank you guys for all the information. I am new to diesels and have learned a lot of basic and advanced information from reviewing your posts over the last several weeks. I have a problem that is a general diesel question.

I have an 85 Winnebago LeSharo with a 2.1l turbo diesel by Renault. It has a Bosch VE130 injection pump and a Garrett TA0305 turbo. I bought it last September and it smokes. When I first crank it up, I see alot of bluish white smoke. After the engine warms up, it subsides to a small amount unless you give it some fuel then you get a small puff.

Things I know.

1. There is oil in the intake manifold after the turbo.
2. The turbo seals seem to be intact since I could not find any oil there.
3. There is a hose form the crankcase to the inlet of the turbo.
4. The engine idles rough until warm and seems to misfire just off idle at all times.
5. The engine seems to "pop" intermittently. Not just the pop from a diesel engine but a louder pop and not very often but it does change with engine speed and seems to go away with about 2000 rpms or so.

So, any guesses as to what is wrong? I think maybe the rings are bad and I am getting some blowby and low compression. I have not checked the compression since my compression gauge is for gas engines only. I guess you check it at the injector port? I have read that if the pump timing is off then I could also have some smoke.

Any help would be appreciated. I have started to perform some of the mods on the VE pump and have been abloe to get the engine to start easier. Since it is only rated at 75 hp (at 3750 rpm) I am anxious to get a few more ponies as well as a more usable powerband (the unit has a gross weight of 7000lbs and a curb weight of about 5500lbs).

Does anyone have any idea od the specs on the turbo? I have searched the web and have not found anything except listings for used and rebuilt units.

Bernie

zyewdall · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2005, 08:32:33 am »

This should probably be moved to the "non vw diesel" forum.

Bluish white smoke on startup that goes away when it's warm is usually unburned diesel. I don't know what sort of glow plug system this engine has, but most of them of this era use a two stage system which applies full voltage for 3 to 10 seconds before you start it, then applies about 5-8 volts for about 10 seconds or so after it starts. My truck used to make a lot of white smoke (truck dissapears) after it started, but then I fooled around with the glow plug wiring (must have had a loose one), and it started not doing that. Another way to tell if the secondary circuit is not working is if it starts right up in cold weather (<20F), and then stalls. Mine used to do this. I think if the timing is excessively retarded, it could also create smoke from unburned fuel.

Continued blue smoke when running is probably burning oil. How much oil are you using? If it still starts okay, compression (rings) may be good, but valve seals may be gone. My friend's got an old VW1.6 that burns a quart every 400 miles, but still has great compression. The VW's are sort of known for developing leaky valve seals. I have no idea if this is an issue on the Renaults.

Does it have an intercooler on the turbo? If not, adding one might allow more power. My truck is rated at 84 HP, with 2.3 liters, so the 2.1 liter giving 75 HP sounds about right. I'd like to add an intercooler to mine, but it performs fine now, so other stuff like getting the SVO system on it take precedence.

lesharoturbo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2005, 09:02:55 am »

Thanks for the reply. I am sorry if I posted in the wrong area.

Mine does not stall after it starts, but it does act as if it does not want to run when first started. I usually hold down the pedal until it runs smooth. This is in winter or summer. There is still a small amount of smoke while idleing, just not as bad.

So far, I have only driven only about 500 miles with no usage in oil that I can tell.

It does have a small intercooler about 3 square foot but it is located just to the left of the turbo. Maybe relocating it could help.

Bernie

andy2 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2005, 09:25:16 am »

Definitely recomend a compression test as well as checking the timimg.The T3 thats on there is almost the same as the 1.6 T3 it's setup to run 9-10psi boost too ,except its got a different manifold flange.The only one I've worked on was overheated and we rebuilt the engine.The wiring on the thermoswitch and cooling fans looked very bad and That was probably the reason it overheated.BTW its a nice engine with aliminum block,it probably weighs less than a VW 1.9TD for that matter :lol:

tylernt · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2005, 10:01:08 am »

Quote from: "zyewdall"

My friend's got an old VW1.6 that burns a quart every 400 miles, but still has great compression. The VW's are sort of known for developing leaky valve seals.

What weight of oil does he use? My gasser Fox used to lose that much oil past the valve seals, but it stopped almost completely when I switched from 10W30 dino to 0W40 full synthetic. I guess the thicker oil doesn't make it past the seals as easily.

lesharoturbo · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2005, 10:09:08 am »

andy2,

I have 2 of these as well as a spare engine/tranny. Do you have a source for internal engine parts? A lot of people are replacing the TD with a Chrysler V6 and 4spd auto because they can't find engine parts. BTW, this is a longitudinal engine and FWD in a RV! It was just to funky to pass up.

Thanks for the info, do I pull the injectors to test for compression?

Bernie

zyewdall · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2005, 10:29:14 am »

Quote from: "tylernt"

Quote from: "zyewdall"
My friend's got an old VW1.6 that burns a quart every 400 miles, but still has great compression. The VW's are sort of known for developing leaky valve seals.
What weight of oil does he use? My gasser Fox used to lose that much oil past the valve seals, but it stopped almost completely when I switched from 10W30 dino to 0W40 full synthetic. I guess the thicker oil doesn't make it past the seals as easily.

Well, he actually put some 10W30 in there..... :roll: I run 20W50 or synthetic 10W50 in my subaru, and it keeps the oil consumption way down from running 10W30. I run synthetic 5W40 in my diesels usually.

zyewdall · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2005, 10:43:18 am »

Quote from: "andy2"

.BTW its a nice engine with aliminum block,it probably weighs less than a VW 1.9TD for that matter :lol:

Hmmm. I wouldn't mind having one of those engines, if it's lighter than a VW. I'm looking for a nice turbodiesel to put in my subaru. I suspose there is little to no chance of ever getting one of those to the US though.....

lesharoturbo · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2005, 10:55:40 am »

There are some places you could buy the engine, but the prices are quite high. that is why I bought the second RV which came with a spare engine and tranny. From what I understand, it is the same TD used in the R18, R21, and R25. If you have some friends in Canada, you might be able to snag one cheap.
They have different turbo's though.
Bernie

andy2 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2005, 02:31:07 pm »

Quote from: "lesharoturbo"

andy2,

I have 2 of these as well as a spare engine/tranny. Do you have a source for internal engine parts? A lot of people are replacing the TD with a Chrysler V6 and 4spd auto because they can't find engine parts. BTW, this is a longitudinal engine and FWD in a RV! It was just to funky to pass up.

Thanks for the info, do I pull the injectors to test for compression?

Bernie

Funky is an apporiate description :lol:.I can't remember where we got the parts from(I have a feeling we got them Overseas $$),however I may be able to find out in the new year when I get back to work :wink:.

You can check compression through the glowplug hole however checking it through the injector hole will give you more accurate readings as with any IDI for that matter.

tylernt · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2005, 04:32:02 pm »

Quote from: "andy2"

You can check compression through the glowplug hole however checking it through the injector hole will give you more accurate readings as with any IDI for that matter.

Glowplug holes are also kind of a pain to get to.

If you do pull the injectors, be sure to use new heat shields upon reinstallation. At least that's what the book says.

zyewdall · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2005, 06:18:17 pm »

Quote from: "tylernt"

Quote from: "andy2"
You can check compression through the glowplug hole however checking it through the injector hole will give you more accurate readings as with any IDI for that matter.
Glowplug holes are also kind of a pain to get to.

If you do pull the injectors, be sure to use new heat shields upon reinstallation. At least that's what the book says.

On the VW yes. On my Mitsubishi, the glow plugs are in the top of the preignition chamber above the injector, instead of the side below the injector, and are extremely easy to get to.