Designing a turbo kit for the IDI platform using aftermarket parts

[retro_developement]

Hi folks.  Been watching this site on and off over the years.  Just got an account set up yesterday after trying for hours to find clear results for using an aftermarket turbo on the 1.6 or 1.9 idi platforms with daily drivable high performance.  

i worked with a buddy on a turbo 1.6 for a while and he picked up the t3/t4 8V manifold and a saab inter cooler.  Called a typical turbo shop and had them make a hybrid t3 turbo for him.  Cant remember the specs on the turbo but it bounced of 35 psi a couple times.  Causes high egts hitting 1500 regularly and didn't spool without lots of fuel.  He got tired of that turbo and picked up an old automatic first gen eclipse 13G turbo.  we made an adapter plate and made it work.  That turbo was perfect spooled fast and would hit 25psi with low egts while costing $80.  

That's all the hands on I have with aftermarket turbos on an 83 1.6td.  It seems like all the projects i see are folks trying to use various stock vw turbos which tend to be expensive and hard to find.  With the cheap and available t3/t4 flange Chinese cast iron manifolds and easily available 8v gasser intakes the only variable is some turbo specs.  

You look at the callaway forums on the vtex and they have a clear parts list to turbo your 8v cis rabbit.  I think it would help a lot of not rocket scientists like myself if some folks would share there data on using non vgt turbos.  Most 12v cummins tuners are using stationary housing turbos and because of the RD on those the average jo can get some bolt ons and injectors and get some power.  I understand that the IDI motors have a higher reving power band and thus a higher power possibilities/displacement than the tdi motors.  

Looking to start a thread with the post mostly consisting of pics and data collected from experience with non vw spec turbos and front mount intercoolers for the 1.6 and 1.9 aaz mills in mk1 cars.  Thanks much.

[retro_developement]

http://www.clubgti.com/FORUM/showthread.php?p=700327

Land rover td5 intercooler in a mk1 golf

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Sprinter plastic endcap intercooler in a mk1

http://www.volksforum.com/forum/printthread.php?t=61978&pp=40

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Prothe turbos

(I know those of you with big bucks to spend hate everything prothe stands for but humor emiata a bit)

http://dieselvw.com/AAZTurbocharger.htm

mercedes t3 from 6cyl OM603 (I believe)
http://dieselvw.com/16Turbocharger.htm

[retro_developement]

T15 Ebay turbo with a familiar looking 3 bolt flange

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T15-Turbo-Turbocharger-/170438035196?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27aee606fc

[retro_developement]

Is there an account of someone blowing a prothe turbo under reasonable stresses?  From what I understand prothe is just selling second tier chinese made Euro sold replacement parts.  Every post I read on tdiclub.com was of disappointment in the mods required to install but construction quality was said to pretty good.  Anyway not looking to get into a fight over prothe just looking for ideas for using new turbos on old motors.  VNT is cool stuff but I'm sure there's got to be a way to get a great set up with a simpler ball bearing t15 t2 t3 turbo.  

[AudiVWguy]

The 13G sounds like an interesting solution. Do you remember the intake and exhaust wheel size/openings for that turbo? How low did the boost come on? Sizing wise. how do you rate the t15, t2, t3?
Cheers,
-JB

[R.O.R-2.0]

Instead of using a prothe turbo, you might want to dump metal shrapnel in you intake.  Probably cheaper in the long run...

HAHAHA

you know anderw, i was about to say something very similar.. i would rather use a used turbo, rather than any brand new prothe junk turbo. you guys seen the VR that had one and it blew the compressor housing into 2 pieces? turbo was GLUED together. ive also seen quite a few engines with prothe turbos that had snapped shafts.

if you wanna run a cheap turbo, just take the K03 out of a 1.8t, they are super cheap, and super plentiful.

and as for VNT turbos, yea.. they rock. i got one on my rabbit. LOUDEST turbo ive ever heard. it was the loudest turbo on a street car at pacific waterland. my VNT makes boost way low, and also carrys it clear to the upper RPM range. it starts dropping off the powerband at about 5500 rpms tho..

why are you trying to re-invent the wheel? we already know that the only way to get close to a VNT with conventional turbos is with a big and a little turbo.. compound boost.. but usually when you compound your boost, it gets very big very fast. and these engines dont like HUGE boost.

[rabbitman]

I see nothing wrong with going for different turbos, the prothe ones don't excite me very bad though.

[clarkrep]

Hi Beau, welcome to the board! Have you got the specs from the RayJay turbo from the BAE kit that your using on the 1.9?
I'm assuming you're still plannin to use it?
Aaron

[retro_developement]

 13G TD04 turbo map (scroll past, or consider the 14G as well)
http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm


  The boost characteristics were great kind of K14 ish and they are cheap and easy to find.  I think it was piped for coolant as well as oil making it a long life turbine.  He still has the aftermarket t3 which i might try running on this aaz.  It was a screamer when it kicked in and timing being retarded was the main issue with egts bouncing over 1500.  I think a 1.9 with some advance and big FMIC might spool it pretty well under 1200 egt.  With water injection it would have been killer on the 1.6. 

I'll see if I can get him to contribute on that experience. 

[retro_developement]

I think VNT's on manual injected setups are going to become more accessible in the future when someone starts offering vane control kits.  IDI's being a high reving motor can make power with a stationary turbo housing The benefits are obvious but getting a good install is a hurdle for most of the hundreds of us who read some of these genius build threads but don't have the time or abilities to go that far with a car build.  IDI's being a high reving motor can make power with a stationary turbo housing.  I think a lot of folks just start out with a mk1 or 2 diesel they ended up with during the bio fuel craze decide they like it and want it to be faster.  Then you go looking into getting the thing faster and thus turbo ed and look for some help and then get told what they cant do or you have to do it like this because that's the "right way."  Because you have to have an oil squirter block to do anything.  which is just the way it is with every scene that's fine.  But i love the guy in central Missouri I met with a machine shop that was drilling N/A's for oil squirters mocking up his own TD manifolds and then making diesel trike choppers out of them.  Or Aaron taking an 11mm block drilling and helicoiling every head bolt hole to get cosworth studs in it.  Then talking about getting a jig set up for drilling squirters.  My buddy Caleb bought a t3 chinese manifold on ebay for 100 then picked up that talon turbo for 20 and went to the local quad power hydraulic and got all the oil lines made.  that 83 td rabbit is still on the road.  All the guys listed are innovators and not average weekend wrench turner.  But if more average weekend wrench turners knew that they could send an n/a block out and get it drilled and clearanced.  Get a reasonably priced turbo kit and injection upgrades and end up with a 90hp plus rabbit there would be a lot more $ coming in for IDI performance R & D.  i know where a pile of 30+ n/a cores are sitting in a pile.  between the samurai scene and vw tuners its going to get near impossible before long to find another td blocks and stock turbos even if you know where to look.  

I know I'm saying the same thing over and over new to these forums and already on a soap box.  but if anyone is interested in posting reasonable budget IDI performance builds along these lines that worked would love to learn.  
      


    

[retro_developement]

The V band on the BAE Turbo failed and the housing ratted around for too long so its a paperweight.  The guy broke three sachs 200mm clutches with it and said his wot boost was 28psi.  The injection pump still had the governor spring in it so it must have been fast spooling.  A claimed top speed of 95 on an uphill grade.  The fella built it in the middle 90's. 

Link to the original installation instructions
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/BAEturbo/index.html

link to a BAE Car & Driver road test back in the day featuring a 1.5l rabbito
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24873.0

vortex link
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4514555-BAE-turbo-diesel-kit&p=59911869&viewfull=1

[AudiVWguy]

I plan on using this IHI VF14 on a 1.9 AAZ. It seems a little bit bigger than the K-14.



I' still waiting on some parts for completion, on paper it looks good, but real life, who knows?

[retro_developement]

Link to tons of turbo maps.  Garrett kkk ATP and on and on.

http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/#ihi