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HELP ... removal of caliper brake hose
by
doonboggle
on 26 Aug, 2010 12:07
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Might as well expected this. After cleaning up from removal of the M/C from the booster, decided to tackle the calipers. So jacked up truck and removed the left front wheel. Right away saw that the p/o 'apparently' did not keep the 2 anti-rattle springs ... since one is gone. But that is minor so went on to the hose removal.
Tried the end that connects to the fluid lines, and everything is turning. So for the last 2 hours, have tried various tools to get the line connection to disconnect from the hose connection. At this point I have buggered up the little line nut head ... and the darn thing still ain't loose. Have added penetrating oil ... no success. Checked Bentley and it says only that Girling uses reverse threads ... mine is Bendix.
Is there a secret to getting this connection to break loose so that I can replace the hose?
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#1
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 26 Aug, 2010 15:40
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I don't know of any guarded secrets.
Heavy Duty high quality vise grips on each piece - propane torch to the union a few times with penetrating fluid in between heats.
Sooner or later that should get it.
Take all precautions of using fire.
Probably good that you have MC lines undone so the smoke and heat don't go there. I'd go ahead and get the caliper end of the hose undone before throwing the heat to the lines. And blowout the lines with compressed air to get as much fluid out.
The grand finale' may wind up being cutting the end off the hard line. But i'm not sure if a handmade double flare will seal as well - or well enough - where the original bubble flare was.
It might mean sourcing new (used) pre-bent lines from another car - or buying a length of new bubble flared end brake line and bending it to fit from MC to caliper hose.
I dropped back and punted when i got in your position.
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#2
by
Vincent Waldon
on 26 Aug, 2010 16:31
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Heavy Duty high quality vise grips on each piece
'Tis the only way I know of as well.
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#3
by
ORCoaster
on 26 Aug, 2010 19:57
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Torches and vise grips, Torches and vice grips,
Oh how I hate it when it comes to Torches and vice grips.
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#4
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 26 Aug, 2010 20:26
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Amen Brother.
I'ma start checking parts cars from now on for crisp clean MC to Cali hose hard brake lines with nice nuts. (don't slam me with that nice nuts comment - thanky)
I saw in an archived thread somewhere a while back where a guy got them New from VW, and said they were not that terribly expensive. However he didn't disclose part numbers or prices.
Anyone able to get them numbers / costs ?
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#5
by
doonboggle
on 27 Aug, 2010 09:38
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Amen Brother.
I'ma start checking parts cars from now on for crisp clean MC to Cali hose hard brake lines with nice nuts. (don't slam me with that nice nuts comment - thanky)
I saw in an archived thread somewhere a while back where a guy got them New from VW, and said they were not that terribly expensive. However he didn't disclose part numbers or prices.
Anyone able to get them numbers / costs ?
I broke down yesterday afternoon and approached a more local shop where I've had Chevrolet van work done before ... common tranny swap, etc. Feel he can do better at brakes than what I;ve screwed up so far. He says he has a solvent-oil-?, similiar to ... but stronger than ... common penetrating oil, that will break these loose every time ... his claim.
During that chat, told him that if need be, the subject 'buggered' up line ... about 15 inches long from M/C to hose ... replace it if there is a local 'shop' that makes lines. He indicated he'll buy the 'kit' for one and make it himself ... as has done before.
I came across this on google, but not having the proper flairing tools, will leave it up to him ... and have him scheduled to come over shortly today or Monday.
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#6
by
doonboggle
on 27 Aug, 2010 12:57
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It might mean sourcing new (used) pre-bent lines from another car - or buying a length of new bubble flared end brake line and bending it to fit from MC to caliper hose.
Baron: Any suggestions where this can be obtained? Want to make sure the proper type is used.
Thanks
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#7
by
maxfax
on 27 Aug, 2010 15:54
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If you mechanic get's/has the kit for making bubble flares he may either be able to save the line you have, or at worst case he can make up a new one from a roll of line.. However if need be, most autoparts places will have the pre made bubble flare line as most everything is using it now days.. I'm having a brain fart at the moment and can;t remeber which fitting you need though.. Barron will probably know though...
On another note, If I understand you right your mechanic is making a house call.. If he does you right make sure you buy him a beer!
It seems now a days most mech's won't leave their shop for no one.. Not even the old lady next door.. Major props to him for willing to!
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#8
by
doonboggle
on 27 Aug, 2010 17:56
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Along ... I'm thinking ... of a guilty conquence of screwing up my diesel head ... and never telling me about it but simply saying it 'needs a valve job' ... by a poor diesel ip tuneup process ... likely had a 'dork' kid doing it ... me thinks he's willing to do it ..... along with 30.00 as well.
Did nothing different than what I was doing; just had different (thick) hand wrenches; actually used my vice grip over his little dinky thing ... and just grunted and groaned ... and got it. Did bugger up the non-buggered one I did not tackle ... a bit.
Plus am only 'around the corner' from his shop; we live in a very small village out in the boondocks of Nevada. And yes, he claims he has the tool and knowledge of making a bubble flare ... so will likely take the 2 front lines off and have him make new ones.
Plus also pointed out ... at no cost ... that I need new discs for up front ... both ... due to the 'berm' (my word) not there, and a 'ridge' along the top on front and back. Have not gotten to the rear ones yet.
If you mechanic get's/has the kit for making bubble flares he may either be able to save the line you have, or at worst case he can make up a new one from a roll of line.. However if need be, most autoparts places will have the pre made bubble flare line as most everything is using it now days.. I'm having a brain fart at the moment and can;t remeber which fitting you need though.. Barron will probably know though...
On another note, If I understand you right your mechanic is making a house call.. If he does you right make sure you buy him a beer! It seems now a days most mech's won't leave their shop for no one.. Not even the old lady next door.. Major props to him for willing to!
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#9
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 27 Aug, 2010 22:27
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Congrats on getting the lines loose from the hoses.
That is a major obstacle on Most All Mk1's.
3-4 months ago when i was in the middle of my brakes i could have spit the size of the brake line / fittings right out. But its left me now. You could measure yours with a good caliper (not brake caliper - a measuring caliper with metric increments).
Thinking its 8mm x 1mm on the front line fittings. But check that.
You have option of re-using the boogered nuts and leaving the line alone. Wrench Size = vise grips.
Cutting the ends off - pulling out some slack from some of the other bends to lengthen the line - slide on new nuts and get it bubbled on the end.
Measuring total length of existing lines, adding a lil bit for comfort, and buy new length of pre-made bubble ended line with new nuts pre-installed (NAPA - Oreilly's). Then use a small pipe/line bending tool and mimic the bends of old lines.
Or maybe the mechanic is being strait up with you and can make them for you. Point out what your present flares look like. And confirm his work will look just the same when complete.
He may be intending to buy the pre-made lengths and just doing the bends. It sounds like he has confidence, so he can probably bend them better than you could yourself - at minimum. Previous experience is helpful.
Whatever way it goes - put a small amount of anti-seize on all the nut fittings from halway > out.
Leave halway > in, clean and dry.
OR - with a small brush - put a good coat of paint on the junctions and nuts after everything is assembled and verified leak-free.
I'd do one or the other to prevent future corrosion.
Plain Rotors should be fairly inexpensive.
And all the rest is new down there, heck why not.
Go gettem Doon !
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#10
by
doonboggle
on 28 Aug, 2010 11:36
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Thinking its 8mm x 1mm on the front line fittings. But check that.
Read at a couple of places, but going by memory at this minute ... that it is a 10mm instead of an 8. Feel this may be correct due to having to use a 10mm wrench on the rear lines ... also it fitting on the non-buggered one in the front.
You have option of re-using the boogered nuts and leaving the line alone. Wrench Size = vise grips.
Very difficult with them ... even though that was the final solution. The front ones (line and hose) are connected through a holding bracket welded to the fender well ... that has side walls to it that restricts getting a firm grip on the hose side. With that, even though it is partially held, the line side, with the 10mm fiting, wants to just spin and ultimately got stripped of the hexigon part. I am planning on using my dremal to cut off the shoulders of this bracket so that, god forbid, if I ever have to do this again, they won't be in the way.
Plain Rotors should be fairly inexpensive.
And all the rest is new down there, heck why not.
Re-thinking replacement entirely. Just got one of the drums off on the rear, and while showing equal amount of 'lip' as on the front discs, the 'old' pads/shoes all have LOTS of wear left ... with the front even with the new pads on the rebuilt Kelsey-Hayes calipers. So I'm thinking of just putting on the new calipers, wheel cylinders, reinstalling the now clean MC and reservoir, new hoses ... in other words, all the stuff that is already here ... cleaning up, bleeding new fluid ... and letting it go as is. Heck, it'll likely outlive me even....
Go gettem Doon !
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#11
by
fatmobile
on 28 Aug, 2010 20:48
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Next time try cutting the spring clips that hold everything to the bracket.
Those springs are cheap at the dealership, get 6 new ones,.. 2 in front, 4 in the rear.
That will allow you to move it up out of the bracket,..
enough to pinch the area around where the line nut screws into, with a pair of vice grips.
This will break the grip of corrosion between the line nut and the hose threads.
You might have to squeeze it, then turn and squeeze it the other way.
This trick will be especially helpful when you get to the rear rubber brake lines,.. they are up there and hard to get to.
Keep the grommet around the old hose, that holds it to the strut bracket,.. mine didn't come with one.
Did your mechanic buy a new short piece with the ends and flares already on it?.. or did he reuse the banged-up line nuts and make his own?
Real easy to find those short ones at NAPA,..
new lines to the rear are better off being made so you don't have to splice two 5 or 6ft pieces,.. but that's only if you destroy the rear metal lines or find a spot in the line that verry corroded..
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#12
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 04 Sep, 2010 18:51
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I'ma start checking parts cars from now on for crisp clean MC to Caliper hose hard brake lines with nice nuts. (don't slam me with that nice nuts comment - thanky)
Just popping in to brag a little.
Over the past week or so have applied PB Blaster 3 diff times to the really great looking MC-to-Caliper hard lines on the 82 Jetta I've been parting out. They had never been touched.
Today was the day. Went clockwise just a push - pulled counterclockwise - and all of them came apart like a 2 year old car would - even though its almost 30.
P U R E S W E E T N E S S ! ! !BIG SCORE for the Home Team today ! 
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#13
by
doonboggle
on 04 Sep, 2010 20:07
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Keep the grommet around the old hose, that holds it to the strut bracket,.. mine didn't come with one.
[size=11pt]New hoses I got did not either ... so cut the old ones on one side with razor and slipped onto them ... and the on to the brackets. Feel certain they'll be there for another many years.[/size]
Did your mechanic buy a new short piece with the ends and flares already on it?.. or did he reuse the banged-up line nuts and make his own?
Got pre-made one from Carquest ... and it did not work ... which was part of my long suffered struggling. Presumed he knew what he was doing ... other than raping my wallet for a simple home visit to crack the caliper hose unions . ANd then, another rape with the cost of this insufficient metal hose.
After trying for about a couple of hours trying to get it to work, took it completely off and studied it next to the 'buggered' up one I did. Everything looked A-OK ... until I noticed at the end of the old fittings, a very small (1/32nd) non-threaded part of the tube ... whereas the new one he created was threaded all the way to the end of the fitting.
Knowing where he gets his parts, I visited there and questioned them; and sure enough, they sold the bad one to him. So the owner let me pick out the one needed and let me go with no cost to me. At home shaped it to match the old one ... put it on ... and worked immediately.
This was not an oversight ... IMO. Why ... because I had left the old one with him, and this fact that he picked out an incorrect version tells me he did not even take the time to take the old one with him for comparision ... which again, is not a surprise to me relative to his so called 'expertise' regarding VWs.
Air heads maybe ... but not water cooled.
So the pre-fabbed hose from CQ was in the vicinity of 5.00 ... and his time at the house breaking the seized hose connections, of about 10 minutes ... both charges of 30.00 each ... total of 60.00.
Ain't life with these kind of 'experts' a KITA.....?
Motto ... never again will I put a foot across his threshold. Cold day in ....... Will use a friends car-dolly and take it to the 'big city' where there is a bonafied 40 year experienced mechanic ... along with the fact the shop itself has been there for 50 odd years.
Real easy to find those short ones at NAPA,.. new lines to the rear are better off being made so you don't have to splice two 5 or 6ft pieces,.. but that's only if you destroy the rear metal lines or find a spot in the line that verry corroded.
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#14
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 04 Sep, 2010 20:19
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Its hard to find the Right people Doon.
Today more than ever.
I originally schooled and trained to be an auto mechanic.
After a few years of making my living at that - decided i hated doing it for a living.
Turned to my hobby/passion of the time - auto refinishing.
Been doing that ever since - mostly.
The best thing about it all has been, that i've never had to pay anyone to work on my car. Or pay anyone to screw me over or fugk up my car. Other than front end alignments.
You're picking up good experience and good knowledge working on your own stuff. And mechanics rate is 75-100 per hour.
On a 25-30 year old car, even the easy stuff can be tuff.