Pump woes

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well... last night chrissev came by and we tried to time my pump... Just before he got there I decided to pull out my old (stock) injectors and replace them with 2 spring 1.9L injectors... but then I thought I wasn't going to be able to put them on as my socket (27MM Deap Impact Socket) wasn't accepting the longer 1.9L injectors...

Good thing Chris has his Snap-On 27MM deep socket with him which worked... So I them in and bent the fuel lines to match the injectors... Mint!  1 down, 1 more to go..

So on to the pump timing...

After some fiddling, we were able to determine that something is quite wrong with my pump (timing wise)... After going through all the timing steps (with the pump aligned in the middle @ the beginning - leaving for and aft adjustment) the dial indicator was showing 0.009in, instead of the 0.033-0.039 we wanted...  Even with the pump cranked fully by hand in the advance position we got to 0.024in... which is still a ways off from the taget of 0.039-0.042in (1.00-1.05mm) which is what I wanted.

Now we checked the timing belt, and cam positions @ TDC of course and since I just recently did it there is nothing wrong and everything is set properly.

Which then led me to the next logical conclusion... Either the key in the pump shaft is broken or missing, and the PO just slapped on the cam to the pump shaft thinking it would hold.  I didn't have time to check this theory last night, but will be looking into this probably later today.

What do you guys think about this?  What would make the pump be so retarded in timing in the timing belt, and cam gears (both for cam and pump) were set properly @ TDC?

It would also probably explain why my car has gotten considerably slower... I used to be able to feel lag, beacuse once 3000 RPM came the boost hit and the car really pulled nice (this was on the stock 1.6L injectors), but after and especially now the car just seems blah... no real notice of boost coming on at all (even tho my boost guage shows I'm getting 9 psi).

So any suggestions?  Does VW sell just the key for the keyway of the pump if it's missing?  I'm guessing they wouldn't... and hoping the shaft/keyway isn't screwed up now I'm hoping I can make something that fits.

This is a real bummer for me... The PO was clearly a n00b, and didn't care how or why, and just slapped things together. No onder he couldn't get it to run.

Also my pump shaft seems to have some play in it (holding the cam gear you can move/wiggle it side to side slightly).... So I'm guessing that's next to go on the list?

Bah... on a better note, the 1.9L injectors made my car idle lower (which is nice) it's around 800-900 rpm now instead of 1200... and seems to run a little smoother... no smoking that I can see either (probably more beacuse of pump timing being slightly better then before, but still wayyyy off)...   :cry:

[QuickTD]

I think you're just one tooth out on the pump sprocket. If you don't pull all the slack out between the crank and the pump during installation it will be one tooth retarded when you tension the belt, I've done it myself. I would recheck the belt installation and try timing it again.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I think you're just one tooth out on the pump sprocket. If you don't pull all the slack out between the crank and the pump during installation it will be one tooth retarded when you tension the belt, I've done it myself. I would recheck the belt installation and try timing it again.

The problem is that with the engine set @ TDC the timing mark on the pump cam matches with the metal backing plate mark, and also the pump locking too fits perfectly in the hole...  So I find it hard to believe that it can be one tooth off...  

Especially since I saw what 1 tooth off looked like from the PO's job of setting the timing belt.

But out of curiosity... is the timing mark on the pump cam supposed to be lined up with the mark on the metal backing plate?  or is the mark on the metal plate supposed to be for the pump fine adjustment itself (as a center point)?

Does it just sound unrealistic that the pump would even last that long (as in the car keep runing) w/o the key in the keyway?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well I checked the timing... it was good... So I attained a new woodruff key from a shop just in case...

I then this morning took off the cam pully from the pump... low and behold what do I find in it's place???  Of course a chopped up PENNY! yes... a penny  :twisted:

So I replaced the wonderful penny with a proper woodruff key, and put the cam back on, and tentioned the belt...

Started it up and took it for a drive... the car still didn't feel all that good... actually it was still very slow...

So back to the garage, and I did a few fueling mods... after that, the car ran great! pulls really nice now, and runs really smooth.

I still can't believe that someone would be so STUPID to put a peice of a penny in there... I mean, really... what the hell do people think sometimes...   :?:

Anyways, thanks for the help!! All is well now!  

[fspGTD]

Wow - nice work discovering the penny makeshift woodruff key.  And I was about to say sounds like the gear was just off a tooth, like the others said.  Nice work finding that.  It doesn't bode well for the integrity of any other areas of your car touched by the previous owner, however.

Did you get your timing properly set after installing a real woodruff key?

[zyewdall]

Wow.  I've been known to reassemble various parts of cars using duct tape, baling wire, and silicon glue.  But not parts that hold wheels or brakes on, or moving parts of engines.  Check for anything else wacky that the PO might have done.

Z

[Justin]

yeah me to I am cheap and wouldnt go that far, i think that a nickel would have been a better choice, its thicker and stiffer

but all joking aside, i still cannot believe that some one would be that desperate

later
Justin

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Wow - nice work discovering the penny makeshift woodruff key.  And I was about to say sounds like the gear was just off a tooth, like the others said.  Nice work finding that.  It doesn't bode well for the integrity of any other areas of your car touched by the previous owner, however.

Did you get your timing properly set after installing a real woodruff key?

Yea... just amazing isn't it.... Although everything else seems fine... and only the head was taken off according to the PO... and obviously the pump was changed.  So as of right now, I think I'm ok...

As for the timing.. no I haven't... again, I have no tool for this... yet...  :lol: