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question about crankshaft nose
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 03:43
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hello.
recently i have bought 1.9 td engine for my suzuki vitara diesel conversion. from your forum i know that TD engines have crankshaft nose problems. i have removed crankshaft pulley and taken few pics to hear your opinion about my engine. here are the pics:
my question is: will this engine run for aprox. 40-50 thouthand kilometers , if i retorque crankshaft bolt properly? or i have to remachine the crankshaft immediately? i think that after that mileage i will anyway have to rebuild it so i'll repair the crankshaft than.
belt pulley seems to be original, and is not changed before.
thank you in advance. vako
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#1
by
theman53
on 20 Jul, 2010 05:15
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If you have it out now I wouldn't risk it. I would go ahead and do it. I figured by the last pic with the flywheel on the ground it probably isn't in. Timing is critical and will grenade your engine if it goes bad. The interference fit between the valves and pistons can't be off much or it goes boom. TDI sproket is cheap insurance IMHO.
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#2
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 05:31
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it can't be seen on the pics but crank surface is almost perfect. and the keyway geometry is also very good. timing pulley looks like it doesn't have any problem. as i have seen on this forum pulley fails first, and then comes the crank....
and if my case is not critical i would prefer living it alone for some time. taking the engine apart is quite a big problem for me , because i have not tested it and i have to put it in the car and start it up as soon as possible. and if it has any other problems i have money back guarantee from seller. when i was inspecting the engine before purchasing it the spocket didn't look like that it would cause any trouble in near future. the pulley has no play and it sits quite tightly on the crank
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#3
by
theman53
on 20 Jul, 2010 06:36
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In the pics it looks to me the crank is starting to round. The edges at the top aren't perfect and that could end up being a huge problem. I would take the engine to a machine shop and hand them a TDI sproket. It will not hurt anything and your seller should know that. If it doesn't run the way you want you'll only be out a little machining bill if the seller won't pay that. They wouldn't have to disassemble anything I don't believe to broch that crank nose. So the rest of the engine wouldn't come into play.
That is just me though. Good luck with it either way.
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#4
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 07:07
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In the pics it looks to me the crank is starting to round. The edges at the top aren't perfect and that could end up being a huge problem. I would take the engine to a machine shop and hand them a TDI sproket. It will not hurt anything and your seller should know that. If it doesn't run the way you want you'll only be out a little machining bill if the seller won't pay that. They wouldn't have to disassemble anything I don't believe to broch that crank nose. So the rest of the engine wouldn't come into play.
That is just me though. Good luck with it either way.
thank you very much for your reply
i have just seen smokey eddy's topic and his crank seemed to be in far worth condition than mine. so i thought maybe i'd be able to skip this problem and solve it later. there are so many details in my vitara -> diesel conversion, that crankshaft problem would be too much for me to cope
waiting for the opinions of other members too. if the majority thinks that this problem is so serious that it cant be postponed for another 30-40 K miles than i'll repair it now. but it would be really preferable for me to do it later
thank you for replies
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#5
by
gnavs
on 20 Jul, 2010 07:41
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
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#6
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 07:58
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
no the crank is in it's place, in the engine... and taking the whole engine is to the machine shop is a bit of a trouble for me
if i had my engine opened up i would not hesitate for a moment to modify my pulley...
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#7
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 20 Jul, 2010 07:59
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
why not do it now while its easy, and there is simething to work with still? instead of an unknown amount of miles later when it fails and leaves you stranded with an engine full of piston and valve chunks. these engines, you dont just re-set the timing and throw on a fresh timing belt like some engines. if you lose the crank sprocket or timing belt, usually you fix it with a WHOLE NEW ENGINE. i cant imagine it would be more than 50 bucks to get the crank fixed..
its up to you. do it right the first time, or do it again when the engine blows up.
and its relatively easy to pull the crank out of a VW diesel. its not rocket science.
its a KNOWN problem, and its not IF its gonna break, its WHEN ITS GONNA BREAK. you can close your eyes and forget about it, but its gonna come back to haunt you. when your 500 miles from home cursing yourself "why didnt i just get the damn TDI sprocket fitted when i had it apart?!"
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#8
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 08:33
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
why not do it now while its easy, and there is simething to work with still? instead of an unknown amount of miles later when it fails and leaves you stranded with an engine full of piston and valve chunks. these engines, you dont just re-set the timing and throw on a fresh timing belt like some engines. if you lose the crank sprocket or timing belt, usually you fix it with a WHOLE NEW ENGINE. i cant imagine it would be more than 50 bucks to get the crank fixed..
its up to you. do it right the first time, or do it again when the engine blows up.
and its relatively easy to pull the crank out of a VW diesel. its not rocket science.
its a KNOWN problem, and its not IF its gonna break, its WHEN ITS GONNA BREAK. you can close your eyes and forget about it, but its gonna come back to haunt you. when your 500 miles from home cursing yourself "why didnt i just get the damn TDI sprocket fitted when i had it apart?!"
yes totally agree with you, i have that haunting problem about car quite often
i have 1991 suzuki vitara/tracker and it had so many problems since the day i have bought it that i have to close my eyes on some of them. it had a crack in an engine block, quite a strange crack frankly speakin. it was on two of the crank journals. but i couldn't find used engine so i had to use what i had... now after 6 months and 2000 kilometers it has developed a rod knock, and it was expected to happen
now it is still running and im trying to get all the needed parts for my diesel conversions before is stops working.
furthermore i dont even know how my vw 1.9 TD engine works. it may not even be worth repairing because it has some other hidden problem about what the seller didn't tell me...
as i understood from your posts, this problem is serious but it will need some time to develop and to become critical. and the crank nose will not fail in 1 or 2 thousand miles of normal usage.
so i took this decision: as the engine im my car has N/S orientation crankshaft nose can easily be accessed even after the engine instalation. so after installing the engine in the car and checking it properly , i'll change the timing belt and also modify the crank nose. i think that it is the most optimal decision in my case....
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#9
by
burn_your_money
on 20 Jul, 2010 09:35
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Do you plan on running the serp setup or v-belts?
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#10
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 10:16
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Do you plan on running the serp setup or v-belts?
i plan on running two v belts. when looking at the engine from the fron , there will be generator on the left side, and power steering pump on the right side
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#11
by
burn_your_money
on 20 Jul, 2010 12:56
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It's impossible to say for sure but I would *guess* that you will be ok for 40-50k until you plan to rebuild
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#12
by
vako
on 20 Jul, 2010 13:36
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It's impossible to say for sure but I would *guess* that you will be ok for 40-50k until you plan to rebuild
believe me, your reply means very much for me
so i think that if i use that epoxy glue of the contacting surfaces of the crank and pulley it wont spoil anything and also give a bit more grip.
after a year or two there will me max 20-30 K on the clock. i'll rebuild my engine or sell the whole car to start with a new project
at last i will not run my engine more than 10-20 k without inspection. it is a modified off road vehicle and i inspect everything very often. so removing the radiator and crank bolt once a year is the least problem that i will have
thank you all very much for replies. i may need your help further in my swap and i will know that there always are kind people who are ready to help newbie
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#13
by
burn_your_money
on 20 Jul, 2010 18:46
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If you ever notice a loss in power and pulling out the cold start helps it run better IMMEDIATELY shut the engine off and have a look at the crank nose. Actually all you need to do is double check the timing. If the cam and pump are still in time with each other but the crank is off, then you know you have a problem with the nose.
I think I would assemble it dry and I probably would use a new crank gear if it was my engine. I would make sure to degrease everything.
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#14
by
vako
on 23 Jul, 2010 12:42
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my engine had this kind of belt pulley. with harmonic balancer. today i have exchanged it for the pulley with two v belt seats. and harmonic balancer. the seller didnt know from whhich engine the pulley was removed. will it be ok for my engine or i better have my original pulley with one pk5 seat and one v belt seat?
this is the pic of the puley i have now
will it be any better than the original one?