Author Topic: What do I do with my engine? serious problems (Read 8090 times)

insdtanoodles · « **on:** December 07, 2005, 04:54:03 pm »

For me it seems like everytime I take it out on the highway something on my car breaks and it always has something to do with the harmonic balancer wobbling. I have a 96 jetta with a 1.9l TD AAZ with 205km

I have had the problem since I bought the car and it got to the point where it was so bad it was throwing the timing out, or atleast thats what the mechanic said but the car can really really rough. So I took it in and they "fixed" and when I got it back it was perfect but after some driving it started to wobble again, so I took it back again. This happened a few times and then they just said "hey you know what, we fixed it and you probably broke it by trying to do some work on it yourself" There wasent much I could do about it because I paid cash so I didnt have pay tax and therefor no recepit.

Since then, the bolt holdin in the power steering pump backet to the engine broke because of all the force put on the pump from vibration, so I put on stronger bolts and then the bracket broke. I am going to buy a new one soon but the same thing is going to happen if I dont fix the cause.

I never understood what the problem with my car was when the mechainc was explaining it to me other then that its a common problem because I have never had the engine apart so I dont know what it looks like. He said something about a keyway and a wooddruff key being worn on on the crank itself and he did some welding.

I took a movie of how my engine is running so you guys can tell me if it is really bad or not. its in my yahoo breifcase http://ca.briefcase.yahoo.com/[email protected]

On the end of the crank is a new timing belt sprocket that the shop installed and a new harmonic balancer and v-belt pulley that I installed myself.

Can someone explain how I would go about fixing the problem properly? If any parts need to be made/welded/machined I can do it myself but I would just need an explnation of what exaclt need to be machined. or if anyone know a reputable place I can get this work done that is pretty cheap that would also be awsome. I am just a poor student that needs a reliable car.

I didnt mean to make this such a big thread but one more thing, is there a guide or faq around about rebuilding this engine? Its got tons of blow-by and a leakey head gasket so I was thinking about boring the cylinders out while the block was off but I am guessing there is more to it then that.

Sorry about the long read and thakns to anyone that can help me.

3beejay3 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2005, 05:23:12 pm »

Sounds like you have the dreaded 'TD Crank Pulley Syndrome'.

You will need to have the end of the crank welded up and machined to fit a TDI pulley.

'Quick TD' can fill you in on all the details, he's done this once or twice :wink:

Brian

insdtanoodles · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:03:30 pm »

Quote from: "3beejay3"

Sounds like you have the dreaded 'TD Crank Pulley Syndrome'.

You will need to have the end of the crank welded up and machined to fit a TDI pulley.

'Quick TD' can fill you in on all the details, he's done this once or twice :wink:

Brian

so if it is a "crank pulley syndrone" it has to do with the way the pulley is sitting on the crank? Hopefully quick TD sees this and I can get some more clear answers, thanks.

chrissev · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:35:45 pm »

Quote from: "insdtanoodles"

Quote from: "3beejay3"
Sounds like you have the dreaded 'TD Crank Pulley Syndrome'.

You will need to have the end of the crank welded up and machined to fit a TDI pulley.

'Quick TD' can fill you in on all the details, he's done this once or twice :wink:

Brian

so if it is a "crank pulley syndrone" it has to do with the way the pulley is sitting on the crank? Hopefully quick TD sees this and I can get some more clear answers, thanks.

It has to do with a key coming loose in the crank pulley and the pulley moving independently of the crank. You fix it by flattening the top of the crank and fitting a newer style flat topped pulley.

QuickTD · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2005, 07:00:11 pm »

The problem with the 1.9TD crank pulley involves the key, which is an integral part of the pulley. The key tends to wiggle back and forth in the keyseat in the crank nose due to torsional vibration in the crank and accessory drive. This wears the key and the keyseat. When the key and keyseat develop enough play, the movement loosens the bolt and the pulley falls off, the cam goes out of time and the valves then collide with the pistons.

For a proper fix you need to remove the crank, get the end welded up oversize, then machine it down to the proper dimension and mill the flat to accept the TDI pulley. I make the pulley a tight press fit on the end of the crank. Trying to work with the out of square and worn undersize crank nose will just result in another disaster.

I can weld and machine the crank but I absolutely do not repair other peoples automobiles as a whole, it's just my policy. If you can find a mechanic to remove the crank, and you bring it to me, I'd be happy to repair it.

insdtanoodles · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2005, 07:21:41 pm »

Quote from: "QuickTD"

The problem with the 1.9TD crank pulley involves the key, which is an integral part of the pulley. The key tends to wiggle back and forth in the keyseat in the crank nose due to torsional vibration in the crank and accessory drive. This wears the key and the keyseat. When the key and keyseat develop enough play, the movement loosens the bolt and the pulley falls off, the cam goes out of time and the valves then collide with the pistons.

For a proper fix you need to remove the crank, get the end welded up oversize, then machine it down to the proper dimension and mill the flat to accept the TDI pulley. I make the pulley a tight press fit on the end of the crank. Trying to work with the out of square and worn undersize crank nose will just result in another disaster.

I can weld and machine the crank but I absolutely do not repair other peoples automobiles as a whole, it's just my policy. If you can find a mechanic to remove the crank, and you bring it to me, I'd be happy to repair it.

I think I understand what you are talking about since I have had the sprocket off. The key is just the angled slot cut into the end? If so then mind had play in it last time I had it off. It sounds like something I can do myself if I can get access to the machine shop were I used to work, if not I will be sending you a PM, thanks.

toolie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:35:26 pm »

Hmmmm.........sounds like I have the exact same condition.

Is there something you/I can do to make it through the winter, soft fix now and proper repair in the spring?

Kind of sound like this is a tolerance design defect

vwmike · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2005, 11:59:30 pm »

I was doing some looking around and noticed that the crank sprocket on the 1.9 is the same as any of the other diesel sprockets. So, it would be my assumption that the weight of the harmonic balancer is actually the straw that breaks the camels back in this case since the other engines never have this issue. I have seen this happen on a VW 16v though, but it did not damage the crankshaft. It just sheared the key off the sprocket so the car ran like crap and shot fire out of the exhaust. I replaced the sprocket and everything was fine again.

QuickTD · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2005, 06:50:14 am »

I'm assuming the weight and the overhang of the accessory drive pullies/balancer as well as the particular torsional harmonics of the 1.9TD are the cause. The 1.9TD tends to work on the pulley for a long time before it becomes noticable to the layman, so the end of the crank is generally pretty badly worn by the time I see it... The AHU TDI has the same crank and accessory pullies, and should develop similar torsional vibrations. The TDI uses a "flat" rather than a key to locate the crank pulley and has a one way clutch alternator pulley. They have very few problems. It appears the solution is to install those parts on the TD.

Toolie, there is no bandaid solution. Brand new parts often only hang in there for 100000km. Old worn stuff will fly off in days. It is a design defect, and there are 2 TSB's about it, but VW has never admitted to, or warrantied, anything.

insdtanoodles · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2005, 03:22:56 pm »

I am wondering, does a tdi crankshaft fit in a IDI engine? If so I could just put in a new crank and pully and it would be find instead of getting an old crankshaft remachined.

QuickTD · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2005, 06:42:15 pm »

Yes, the AHU (97-99)TDI crank will drop right in. You'll want to find a used one though, they go for about $2500CDN new at the dealer. Impex can get you one for considerably less, only $1040 US...

insdtanoodles · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:31:37 pm »

Well this weekend I took apart my engine and all I can do is cry :cry: :cry: so when I took the head off it was cracked inbetween the valves, no big deal it usually cracks there but no... for cylinder 1 and 4 the cracks were huge and on #3 there was a giant crack from the intake to the pre-combustion chamber. Then I measures the head and keeping with the flow, it was warped :x :x . So I moved on in a pissed off mood to the crankshaft, the reason I am taking the engine apart. I was looking forward to seeing how badly the keyway was warped since it was wobbling so much. With my impact gun and some work the bolt came off and I took the pulley off, only to find that its a tdi pulley on there, thats when I kinda got really mad. Why would it be wobbling so much if it was actually fixed properly when I took it to the shop last time (assuming the remachiend end is concentric to the crankshaft, which I need to check). When I was driving home the wobbling got so bad that my belt flew off, so I put it back on, flew off again but this time it took the tenesioner with it, that plastic black pulley broke off so to drive home I had to cut the belt.

This has not been a very good weekend for me and now I am stuck with a decsion, dump more money in to this stupid car that never seems to be working fine for more than 2 weeks, or sell everything and try something else. I dont know what the car is worth thou, everything else in the car is in good shape, it has had a paint job done 3 months ago, full set of winter and summer tires on seperate rims, transmission and all the jazz. So thanks for everyones help but it seems like it is futile to screw around with this stupid volkswagen so maybe anyone looking for some idi parts will have some on the market soon.

happy holidays everyone :cry:

NGTD · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2005, 07:30:17 pm »

If you decide to sell, let me know.

I might be interested in it.

insdtanoodles · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2006, 12:42:16 pm »

I am wondering how I would go about checking my crankshaft for play? Everything was wobbling like crazy before I took the engine apart and now after throwing on a new timing sprocket I turned the engine with a rachet and indicated the top of each tooth on the sprocket and it was out about .001 to .0015. Is there any other way I should check the crank/sprocket so I know then when it goes in the engine it "should" be okay? is there a way to check how it would run if it was under load without actually putting the engine back together and starting it, if adding load would efect it at all?

thanks