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K24 or T3? by GTD_MK2 on 01 Jun, 2010 20:16
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Hi!
I've got a 91 1,6 ECODiesel , and want to change the turbo from a k14 to k24 or t3.
The engine has the following Modifications:
Stock GTD intercooler, LDA Inj. Pump, governor mod, 2,5" Downpipe and exhaust without Cat. , 24psi boost, Fuel turned up to get a light haze.
I got very high egt's and not enough power with the K14 and the engine has not really much power in the upper RPM's, so now i want to put on a bigger turbo.
I've got a garret T3 and a KKK K24 here, so wich one should i use? what are the differences between those?
At which RPM do they spool and how much boost can i get with them up to the upper RPM Range?
I would be happy to get 30 psi of boost up to 5000-5500 RPM, is this possible with one of these turbos?
How many HP can i get with them?
So I have lots of questions, but i hope for some help to make the right decision .
PS: Please excuse my strange english , because i'm a german
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#1 by 4wheeler on 02 Jun, 2010 05:50
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24PSI with a K14 is the reason for high EGTs it s way outside of it s efficency zone...They don`t work well past 20ish PSI and/or 4000RPM
Go for a VNT or a mitsubishi ball bearing turbo for 30PSI, Even a compound setup if you re a good fabricator. -
#2 by theman53 on 02 Jun, 2010 17:47
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Either turbo should work for you T3 or the K24. Both are boosted to 30 regularly around here from what the members say. I haven't installed my K24 yet, but it should be in the 20-25 psi range.
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#3 by GTD_MK2 on 02 Jun, 2010 19:47
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Ok, that's helpful information for me
But in my opinion there must be some differences between the turbos, because from what i've seen , the compressor inlet of the K24 is bigger than the one of the T3 , and the turbine side of the T3 looks bigger than the one from the k24.
So i think that should bring some differences in spooling and max. flow / backpressure of the turbos...
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#4 by theman53 on 02 Jun, 2010 19:53
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I think zukgod1 said something about he thought one was a little better high RPM but had a bit more lag. But this was maybe 100RPM difference on both sides. I think he also said one seemed a little tougher in his experience, but I can't remember which one was which. If I had to bet I would say it is the K24 that was tougher and didn't have the 100 RPM higher powerband, but I can't say for sure. Someone will chime in now that it has 5 posts or so:D
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#5 by GTD_MK2 on 02 Jun, 2010 20:10
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by the way, how big is the difference in upper rpm power between the K14 and the K24/t3 ? because with the k14 my engine seems to pull hard from 2200 to 4000 rpm, beyond this the engine got no real power...
I hope for some real changes in the uprange power
How many HP can i get out of my setup with the K24/t3 turbo? to wich rpm will it rev good?
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#6 by theman53 on 02 Jun, 2010 20:13
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again I don't know for sure, but I think it depends on the pump. Most KKK K24 and T3 s will pull to 5,000 IIRC. Start around 2,300 with a 3" downpipe maybe
someone else will have to speak on this though.
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#7 by smokin_fun on 03 Jun, 2010 10:39
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My t3 is at 22 psi by about 3000 maybe, usually its pullin so hard i am not lookin at the tac. I have seen 35 in the blink of an eye well before 4000. T3's BOOST!
I am currently runnin a 2.25" DP into a 2.5 straight pipe. I just acquired a .50 trim that i am going to install in the fall when i put my beater audi back on the road. I will be going for the 28-30psi range with that setup.
Everyone i have talked to likes the T3.
BTW i am running a Giles super pump as well -
#8 by burn_your_money on 03 Jun, 2010 18:43
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I copied this info from a post somewhere
Eureka! found it
Not mine....at all... cant take claim.... but I cant give credit either coz I forgot who I stole it from... I know it came from vwgtd.net... so whoever made this... thanks
Garrett TA0304B vs Kühnle, Kopp & Kausch K24
Referencing the appropriate part numbers to these tables, and using the measurements I took directly from the guts of the 1.6lTD KKK turbo, we can compare these turbos more closely...
garrett compressor:
blades: 6
wheel diameter: 60.00mm
inducer bore: 35.40mm
tip height: 3.00mm
kkk compressor:
blades: 6 major, 6 minor (12 total)
wheel diameter: 60.5mm
inducer bore: 37.5mm
tip height: 4mm
findings: nearly identical compressor wheel OD means pressure ratio capability of the two are about equal. However, ~6% larger inducer bore of the KKK means it can flow a bit more air. There is also a very significantly greater tip height with the KKK turbo (33% greater on the KKK).
garrett turbine:
blades: 11
wheel diameter: 59.00 mm
exducer bore diameter: 49.00mm
kkk turbine:
blades: 12
wheel diameter: 59mm
exducer bore diameter: 49.5mm
findings: except for one additional blade, and the intermediate blades on the kkk turbine, the turbine sections have nearly identical specs. -
#9 by GTD_MK2 on 03 Jun, 2010 19:15
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Thank you for your help! That were the informations i was looking for
So after this i think the KKK K24 will go in the car tomorrow if i get the gaskets.
I just checked both chargers again, and the K24 i got has almost no shaft play, but the t3 has got a radial play of 0.6mm, and an axial play of 0.1mm.
What do you think is the t3 still usable, or should it be rebuilt ? what is the maximum acceptable play for it? -
#10 by Rabbit on Roids on 04 Jun, 2010 10:03
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i would lean towards using the turbo with some shaft play, rather than one thats tight. a brand new turbo should have shaft play even.
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#11 by burn_your_money on 04 Jun, 2010 15:03
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I'd use the one that has less play. I know there has been a lot of talk on here lately about how play is good and I agree that some is, but 0.6mm sounds like a lot to me.
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#12 by theman53 on 04 Jun, 2010 15:14
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Run it. NO GUTS NO GLORY. You got a spare LOL.