diesel vanagon starting issue

[motomike33y]

suddenly my vanagon is having starting issues.  I'm speculating its the ignition switch, but looking for alternatives/tests before I tear into things needlessly(which I've been known to do).  Vanagon will start one day w/no problem, then next day-won't turn starter over, then next day start fine.  Vehicle hasn't moved, as I'm waiting to do some other things.  Nothing has been done to it since the start fine-no start-start fine-no start scenario.  There is no clicking ala solenoid problem, and starter was just replaced w/rebuilt one and started fine several times, until the unknown problem surfaced.  Lights go on in dash when switch turned on, but starter doesn't turn, then next day it will.  suggestions?  thanks

[the caveman]

It's easy to get to the solenoid of a diesel starter so get a 12-16 gauge wire with a 1/4 connector at one end. Remove the small starter wire from the solenoid and connect the wire. Then touch the other end to the + of the battery . Try starting it a few times. If it starts you may have an ignition switch problem. If not then check the larger battery wires from the battery to starter. Don't forget to check the ground also. Easy by using some booster cables from the negative side of the  battery to the block. Don't discount the rebuilt starter .Have seen many fail even after only a small amount of time. May not be the rebuilder's fault, replacement parts are getting crappy.

[motomike33y]

thanks for the ideas-I'm leaning towards switch problems because I was able to slowly wiggle the key around and get it to start yesterday.  The weather and other duties didn't let me get under it try anything else.  I'm interested in the relay even if I replace the switch.  I'm electronically challenged so what would I get and how would I hook it in?  thanks

[Vincent Waldon]

Bosch even put out a kit called the WR-1 to solve this problem on air-cooled vans and Beetles... here's a wiring diagram along the same lines as Andrew's explanation:

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/hardstart.pdf

[somolovitch3]

If you look at the bottom of a relay (I used one with 32 in white on it) that is the phisical layout.

And in another post, it was decided that the 86 terminal would be the hot lead and the 85 term the ground.

[Vincent Waldon]

It looks like they have the numbers in the wrong places.  Maybe it's just convention and not always the case, but shouldn't 85 and 86 be opposite each other and 30 and 87 opposite each other?

Could be... I've seen a couple different pin-outs, but I tend to have the version with the 87 and 87a contacts since they are great for relaying headlights etc.

I actually didn't interpret the drawing as a physical layout but more of an electrical layout...if you wire it up by pin number I'd expect it will be fine.

[motomike33y]

replaced the switch, still same problem, altho it turned over one time when I tried it.  Tried removing and jumping the small wire-again without success.  Going to get the relay I think, and try that.  It's a pain to try removing the starter if I don't need to.  thought about just crossing the two larger bolts the way we used to do in the 60's, but don't have good access w/ my screwdriver to do that.

[motomike33y]

tried the spade wire to the battery w/out any response, so I'll have to pull starter to check it out.  frustrating because it had only been on about a month or less.

[motomike33y]

Mystery solved.  been reading about all the ground problems so I hooked up old starter I'd removed to battery and switch, and it worked.  so...I hooked up jumper cable from - battery terminal to body of starter.  voila--it worked.  I think I'll probably just run an extra ground to the starter mounting bolt, then on to work on my IP issues 

[motomike33y]

Did it again.  Started it and let it run while I was fiddling with wiper switch relays.  shut it off and tried starting it later to adjust the IP.  No luck, no sound from the starter-acted just like before I added the extra ground.  Could I have loosened something in the fuse/relay wiring?  nothing looks out of place nor seems loose.  Everything lights up when the switch turns on, except the starter doesn't turn.  becoming more frustrating. 

[motomike33y]

tried the remote starter switch on the solenoid, and it turned over, so must start exploring wiring issues up front where I'd taken the fuse/relay box from its mounting. 

[motomike33y]

perplexing me again.  turned over couple days ago, won't turn over now.  used remote starter jumped across spade terminal to hot terminal-nothing.  have extra ground cable, now I'll have to try an extra power cable or something  I'm perplexed.

[motomike33y]

used the jumper again from battery negative to starter body and it spins.  my connections, even with extra ground, are obviously having problems.

[motomike33y]

problem was with ground connection.  redid extra ground to the starter and put it beneath washer  and everything appears to be ok now.