Author Topic: Issue with a 1.6L TD Jetta (Read 4382 times)

NOTORIOUS VR · « **on:** November 30, 2005, 09:49:42 am »

What's up guys...

Well it's about that time, and I have come across a good deal on a 90 TD Jetta.

The thing is it doesn't run or it barely runs/ran. Haven't seen it yet, going to check it out in a few hours.

But this is what the person selling it states:

Quote

recently the fuel pump broke. The engine can run but is smokes white smoke.

Now I don't know much at all about diesels but white smoke makes me thing of the headgasket. But then again, i'm wondering if a bad diesel pump/injectors could cause white smoke?

Or maybe the white smoke is just the major condensation from sitting for a while?

Any ideas would be geat! Also does anyone know how much it would be for a rebuilt IDI pump? In the Toronto, Ontario area? Or who even sells/fixes them?

TIA!

tackered · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2005, 09:56:39 am »

The timing is done... time it and you *may* be OK... But from someone who knows nothing about diesels, the engine might not be in the best condition.

the white smoke you see is *probably* unburnt diesel, resulting from the piss poor timing the bloke who "fixed" The injection pump did.

NOTORIOUS VR · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2005, 10:10:56 am »

^^^ Interesting...

Also I was thinking that because if a pump was really broken, I'm assuming the car wouldn't run at all? :?

chrissev · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2005, 07:53:52 pm »

Quote from: "NOTORIOUS VR"

What's up guys...

Well it's about that time, and I have come across a good deal on a 90 TD Jetta.

The thing is it doesn't run or it barely runs/ran. Haven't seen it yet, going to check it out in a few hours.

But this is what the person selling it states:

Quote
recently the fuel pump broke. The engine can run but is smokes white smoke.

Now I don't know much at all about diesels but white smoke makes me thing of the headgasket. But then again, i'm wondering if a bad diesel pump/injectors could cause white smoke?

Or maybe the white smoke is just the major condensation from sitting for a while?

Any ideas would be geat! Also does anyone know how much it would be for a rebuilt IDI pump? In the Toronto, Ontario area? Or who even sells/fixes them?

TIA!

hmmmm, bad timing could cause white smoke. But probably the car just wouldn't run. The IDI pumps on the 1.6 jettas are quite bullet proof really. They last for maybe 400,000, maybe 500,000km. They usually don't break. 9 times out of 10 they outlast the engine. I would be really surprised if the fuel pump was broken. I don't see or hear of that a lot. Could be like you said a head gasket issue. The headgaskets on the 1.6IDI jettas were their weak spot. They are pretty much a routine service item. Every 200,000km or so you have to replace them. So it might be that. If it is a broken fuel pump post back and tell us what was wrong with it. It would be interesting to know how those pumps can actually break. Mine wore out and I got a rebuilt one, but the car still ran with the worn out fuel pump, just smoked and had no power because there wasn't much fuel pressure. I'm in TO and the only place I know that rebuilds those pumps is in Mississauga. Forget the name of it but I had some injectors rebuilt there. They are a bosch authorized service centre and they work on mostly diesel trucks. They are in the toronto yellow pages under diesel injector repair I think. Have a look and see if you can find them. Wish I could remember the name.

BlackTieTD · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2005, 09:29:16 am »

Superior Fuel Injection & Turbos Limited
905-475-1122
300 Steelcase Road West,
Markham, ON L3R 2W2

DVST8R · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2005, 09:38:18 am »

Quote from: "BlackTieTD"

Superior Fuel Injection & Turbos Limited
905-475-1122
300 Steelcase Road West,
Markham, ON L3R 2W2

Ask for Giles :wink:

NOTORIOUS VR · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2005, 09:57:08 am »

HEy! Thanks for the reply guys...

Well when I went to look @ the car... I decided to give it a whirl and see what it does when it cranks... and with a half dead battery I was able to get it to diesel to over power the starter speed. but it would pretty much die the instant i let off the starter.

It puffs white smoke, and smells only like diesel.

The PO told me recently the head was rebuilt. But the cause of all this is actualy beacuse the PO was playing around with the original pump and then couldn't get it to start anymore... he then went out and bought another one, put it on the car and still couldn't get it to start.

So, I'm guessing something wasn't done correctly timing wise.

I have a factory (Bentley I believe) factory manual here but it find it a little hard to follow in terms of setting the timing... I also do not have a dial indicator guage, which by searching this forum I see if one way to set the timing properly on these cars.

Is there possibly a way for me to set the timing close enough to make it run at least half decent till I bring it to someone who knows diesel VAG products well and can do the fine timing adjustments?

Thanks for the input guys! I'm going out to tackle the car now.. pull out the airbox and side timing covers... re-read the Bentley a few time to see if I can understand exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.

I'm no n00b to VAG cars, but I am to diesels! lol

Thanks!

vwmike · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2005, 12:09:01 pm »

In my experience, most timing mistakes come when people don't really understand how the timing works since it's a little odd. On most cars the cam sprocket isn't infinitely adjustable.

Really, to time it right you need to remove the valve cover and install the lock tool. Loosen up the cam sprocket. Install the pump lock tool. Set the crank at TDC. Then tighten down the cam sprocket and tensioner if you had that loose. From there you can use the dial indicator to set the pump timing exactly where it needs to be.

NOTORIOUS VR · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2005, 03:16:01 pm »

Well I got the car to start and actually run pretty good... I'm thinking the timing is out by quite a bit because I basically loosened all the pump bolts and yanked it up (clockwise if looking from the drivers side @ the pump) as far as I could turn it there and hold it.

BUT, it's slow as hell so I believe that there are still timing issues with the car. The turbo is good, no shaft play and i can hear it @ idle but not under load. The car has a full stock diameter exhaust on, I dunno if that might be why, but it's a lot slower then my buddies TD of the same year.

It just seems to fall on it's face after 3K RPM.

But I'm happy I got it started, and did some other things to the car took the tint off, put the front bumper on (zip ties for now LOL) sprayed all the doors/hinges with WD40, etc, etc...

Had a lot of clean up to do, and still do. But it's getting dark and cold out side, so time to move it into the garage. Need to bleed the breaks maybe change the calipers as I don't think my front brakes are working right now lol.

I think everyone again for the replies.

I'll be sure to post an update when I get the car back.

BlackTieTD · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2005, 03:23:39 pm »

compression test it. might have smacked valves.

Black Smokin' Diesel · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2005, 05:14:58 pm »

Calipers rarely break down. If the piston leaks you can replace it's seal. If the piston is really worn THEN you can replace the calipers.

When you do the brakes, make sure the metal sleeves on which the caliper slides on are moving freely. They have a tendency to rust and seize inside the rubber bushing. Best tool to retract the piston is a G-clamp.

But you probably knew all that already :wink:

chrissev · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2005, 12:48:01 pm »

Hey Notorious VR: I am in the TO area and I have all the tools to time that car. It's fairly easy to do. I'll set the belt up and time if for you for $20 if you want (just to cover the cost of fuel for me to get where you are). Sucks that people (like your car's PO) continue to work on these diesel VWs without understanding them. They are so simple if a person takes a bit of time to learn how they work.

Chris

NOTORIOUS VR · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2005, 02:28:07 am »

Well all of you seasoned diesel guys were pretty much right on...

The pump timing was off by one tooth... found that out tonight when I changed the timing belt. Also the cam timing was off ever so slightly, so I don't think any damage was done there.

I also put in a new diesel filter and a fuel line that was cracked.

I haven't driven the car yet but it did start right away... but then turned it off, because it was around 4am... lol

Chris thanks for the offer, I IM'd u back...

Again everyone thanks for the help! I can't wait to get up tomorrow and start working on it again.

Going to take my spare pump apart tomorrow to test the govenor mod before doing it on my own pump

The next investment will be an exhaust & DP (if I can find one for a decent price) and a boost and EGT guage.

NOTORIOUS VR · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2005, 02:54:17 pm »

Just as an update for tho's who are interested.. and a few questions as well...

I've been driving the car, and it runs pretty good... I haven't had a chance to fine tune the pump yet... Having that done on Sat by a guy who owns a VW/Audi shop... as he as the proper tools and he's doing it for free.... :wink:

But I am having some driveability issues with the car... not too sure if it's because of the pump timing, but the car stutters under partial throttle when the RPM's are aroung 2000-2300... anywhere else in the rev band it's perfect.

I can feel the turbo spool and pull the car through from about 2800+ which is nice.

The tranny seems a little short to me for a diesel... any 4S tranny guys here? @ 120 km/h i'm @ ~3300 RPM, is that normal?

Also the car is a little hard to start.. I dunno if it's a glow plug issue or pump timing... the glow plugs look new (probably from when the head was rebuilt by the PO), but I haven't tested them which I will be doing this week someone as per the Bentley.

When I try to start the car after sitting over night in this winter weather, I need to try @ least 2 times to crank, and then once it starts it runs pretty rough and smokes white for about I'd say 30 sec while I keep on the throttle above 2k (almost sounds like it's misfiring really). After that I can let go and the enrichment/choke keeps the car idling smooth as silk and @ about 1400-1500 RPM's.

One more question... How do u know if u'r motor has low compression? Is there a way of telling with the motor together? is there a tool that goes in say to the injector spots to test?

And ideas towards these small issues would be great!

Other then that, I'm glad to have joined the diesel comunity (and to be back in a VeeDub!)... and hope I can get this thing running good so I can slowy start to modify it

jtanguay · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2005, 08:33:45 pm »

My mechanic has a special fitting that goes right into the glowplug hole to check compression. (dont have to mess with injectors)

my car starts pretty hard too, and its probably pump timing as well, but it does idle smoothly at 1000 rpm after about 5-10 secs of pumping the pedal... i wouldnt race the motor to 2k rpm though... unless maybe its a thin synthetic oil that will lubricate the parts fast enough.