NA to TD options

[snowy vw]

(Mod's note: I made this a new thread, since this is really a completely different question)


I am so so sorry to post this message on your sacred postings.. But I wanted to ask you something..

Since you are in Portland, OR and you are not that very far from where I am from.. Based on my observation, you have pretty good knowledge of doing TD engine swap, correct me if I am wrong..

I just purchased 1991 Jetta GL Diesel (1.6 I am assuming) from an auction. It has sat on the police impound for 5 years.. It needs to be tuned up, etc... but MY question is.. Which way easier to have a TD engine; install turbo component on the existing motor, or swap whole engine to TD engine?

Thanks,

Will  

[vanbcguy]

I'd say "whatever you can find"... If you can find a complete turbo motor I'd say it's less work to drop that in than to find all the bits and pieces for an existing engine.  If you're tripping over turbo parts though you could always go that way.  I don't think I would convert an NA engine unless I could find all the turbo bits for a few hundred $$$ personally.

The MINIMUM required to add a turbo to an NA motor:

- Turbo (duh)
- Turbo exhaust manifold
- Turbo intake manifold
- Downpipe
- Air intake ductwork
- Oil feed line
- Oil drain line
- Drill block for oil drain line

Recommended, but not ABSOLUTELY necessary:

- Pump with LDA, or LDA top for existing NA pump (will have lots of smoke otherwise)
- Piston oil squirters (keeps the pistons cool, reduces the chances of them melting)
- Turbo pistons (made of different alloy that can stand higher heat, have a notch cut in them for the oil squirters)
- Proper turbo head (different sized prechamber, different valves, again supposed to be able to withstand higher heat)
- EGT gauge (lets you know if you're about to melt your engine - probably even more critical on a previously NA engine unless you have all the above recommended stuff too)

[Rabbit on Roids]

i would turbo what you got. thats what i did.

[lch]

I got a 86 Golf with a 1.6 NA Diesel engine on it that came from a 82 Rabbit.

Last weekend we (my friend in the muffler shop and myself) installed a turbo on it.
It was an used turbo from a Nissan engine, a Garret t25.

Parts that we got from donors:
Intake from a 1.8 gas engine, no plates or springs, just the intake itself
Oil feeding line
Turbo with plates (in order to fabricate the piping we needed the conecting metal plates to be screwed onto the turbo)

Parts we fabricate
Plate to attach piping to intake
Plate to fabricate the exhaust manifold, and then the manifold
Some piping for the exhaust, and some piping for the intake, we did not use an intercooler due to the engine being small displacement 1.6, and not reving to high, so a lot of piping will make a lot of turbo lag
oil drain was done on the oil carter, we punch a hole, and weld a piece of pipe.

Nothing internally was done to the engine, the fuel pump was already running a little rich.
So far everything looks and works good, this week I'm going back to make a bigger muffler pipe, now it has 1.5 inch piping, and we are going to go with 2.25 inch piping.
My intention is to keep the boost level around 6 or 7 PSI.

Will continue posting once I have more experience with it!

[Rabbit on Roids]

6 or 7 psi is stock boost levels. crank it up to 15 psi at least. most of us are running closer to 30, and a few of us run well over 30 psi.

[bajacalal]

6 or 7 psi is stock boost levels. crank it up to 15 psi at least. most of us are running closer to 30, and a few of us run well over 30 psi.

Didn't you also admit to destroying 3 or 4 engines?

[Rabbit on Roids]

yea, but not from 6 or 7 psi. put a 3 in front of the 7 and thats when i exploded my block. and im using 1.5 blocks, notoriously weak.. im the first to admit, they do break, but its not easy, AT ALL! my engine is not built to handle high boost.

my grandpa has gone thru 5 engines. his engines never see above 4k rpms, and all are n/a.. i have better luck than him at 6500 rpms and 25 psi boost.

i cracked my first engine, sanded the second one, froze the third one, and the 4th is the best one yet. but i havent ran over 25 psi into this one. and its also intercooled, the other 3 were not.

[kaneb]

I would turbo the NA, i had really good luck.  I bought a TD put the turbo parts on my NA and then rebuilt the TD. Now i have a new refurbished TD in my bunny and it goes pretty good too!

[lch]

6 or 7 psi is stock boost levels. crank it up to 15 psi at least. most of us are running closer to 30, and a few of us run well over 30 psi.

Didn't you also admit to destroying 3 or 4 engines?

Well I think I will go no furhter than 12, I use this as my daily driver, and want to keep it for very long time, also in my country this engines are not easy to find, so I don't want to put to much risk on it.
And another question, I got the NA fuel pump, without the LDA top, that anyway cannot get in here, can I just try to enrich a bit my setup, and how should I measure when it is a good point to stop.

Thanks again, this forum is great

[Rabbit on Roids]

the n/a fuel pump puts out enough fuel in stock form to fuel a turbo to about 10 psi. you probably wont need to bump up your fuel.

and another thing. everyone always gives me crap about cracking blocks. yea, i did crack a few. from almost 40 psi boost.. not anything even remotely close to stock numbers. a VW diesel will take 15 psi boost for ever with the proper maintenance.

you run no risk of shortening the life of your engine if you run 15 psi. you wont have enough fuel to get it hot. heat is what kills diesels, usually not boost. you run a better chance killing it with 8 psi than with 15 psi. the engine running 15 psi will be running cooler and more efficiently than the engine with 8 psi, assuming the engines have identical fueling.

to re-iterate, i over boosted my engines REALLY BAD...

do what you want, its your build, im not going to beat my head trying to convince you to do something.

[lch]

the n/a fuel pump puts out enough fuel in stock form to fuel a turbo to about 10 psi. you probably wont need to bump up your fuel.

and another thing. everyone always gives me crap about cracking blocks. yea, i did crack a few. from almost 40 psi boost.. not anything even remotely close to stock numbers. a VW diesel will take 15 psi boost for ever with the proper maintenance.

you run no risk of shortening the life of your engine if you run 15 psi. you wont have enough fuel to get it hot. heat is what kills diesels, usually not boost. you run a better chance killing it with 8 psi than with 15 psi. the engine running 15 psi will be running cooler and more efficiently than the engine with 8 psi, assuming the engines have identical fueling.

to re-iterate, i over boosted my engines REALLY BAD...

do what you want, its your build, im not going to beat my head trying to convince you to do something.

Well thanks for the info, I need to have my muffler done, as it is now it is like 1.5 inch piping, I need to go bigger than that, probably I will get that done this weekend.
After that I will see how much PSI is the turbo boosting with the new muffler, and also, another question, I do not have a tachometer for the diesel, I do have the diesel engine in a Golf gasoline chasis, that has tach, how can I make my golf gas tach with the diesel engine, so far I have only found a DSL 1 conversion box, but you're the experts and I'm sure there are some other options., What is a safe RPM limit on this engines, about 5000 rpm?

Thanks

[arb]

- Pump with LDA, or LDA top for existing NA pump (will have lots of smoke otherwise)

I added a GT15 to my 1.6L NA in my Dodge caravan and other than the first 10 seconds after a cold (sub-freezing) winter start, I don't have any smoke with my stock NA IP. 9 psi is typical under highwy load.

[Rabbit on Roids]

the n/a fuel pump puts out enough fuel in stock form to fuel a turbo to about 10 psi. you probably wont need to bump up your fuel.

and another thing. everyone always gives me crap about cracking blocks. yea, i did crack a few. from almost 40 psi boost.. not anything even remotely close to stock numbers. a VW diesel will take 15 psi boost for ever with the proper maintenance.

you run no risk of shortening the life of your engine if you run 15 psi. you wont have enough fuel to get it hot. heat is what kills diesels, usually not boost. you run a better chance killing it with 8 psi than with 15 psi. the engine running 15 psi will be running cooler and more efficiently than the engine with 8 psi, assuming the engines have identical fueling.

to re-iterate, i over boosted my engines REALLY BAD...

do what you want, its your build, im not going to beat my head trying to convince you to do something.

Well thanks for the info, I need to have my muffler done, as it is now it is like 1.5 inch piping, I need to go bigger than that, probably I will get that done this weekend.
After that I will see how much PSI is the turbo boosting with the new muffler, and also, another question, I do not have a tachometer for the diesel, I do have the diesel engine in a Golf gasoline chasis, that has tach, how can I make my golf gas tach with the diesel engine, so far I have only found a DSL 1 conversion box, but you're the experts and I'm sure there are some other options., What is a safe RPM limit on this engines, about 5000 rpm?

Thanks

safe RPM is pretty much whatever you feel like turning these engines. the fuel pump wont supply enough fuel to scatter the bottom end. again, there are going to be snickers from people, but ive ran my engines well past 6000 rpms. just by ear, and speed, it would turn more rpms in every gear over my gas GTI. my gti has a limiter at 6250, the diesel has a gov mod, and it doesnt have a rev limiter. these little engines certainly are rev happy.. they rev more like a gasser, because the engine is modeled after a gas engine. vw took proven technology, improved upon it, and came out with the diesel.

as for your tach, you can either swap in a mk2 diesel cluster, or convert your tach to work off a W signal. (gotta have a diesel alt w/ the w terminal) or if you dont feel like tearing your tach apart and re soldering bunches of stuff, buy the dakota digital DSL1..

by the way, 4850 or something is the STOCK red line on these engines. at that RPM, you can leave a brick on the pedal of a diesel vw all day, and no damage will happen to the bottom end. 5500 or 6000 should be nothing to worry about if you got the fuel to turn that many revs. and dont worry about your rod bolts, your engine is old enough that it has re-useable rod bolts, the non stretch type that dont NEED to be replaced. we had a bit of an un necessary scare on the board a while back.

as for your exhaust, go with the biggest pipe you can easily fit under the car. diesels dont need back pressure, especially if your gonna run a turbo.

[lch]

Thanks a lot for all the info.

Will do the exhaust on 2 1/4 or 2 1/2, and will probably use one of the modifications to get the tach to work, (i'm inclined for the magnetic pickup solution).
After that will see how much it boost and how much it revs, and will try to do some adjustments.
I'll keep posting here as the job is getting done.

Thanks