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Regarding head ... is it worthless? ? ?
by
doonboggle
on 16 Apr, 2010 10:28
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As I've touched on earlier, I had a fellow offer me a reconditioned head in a swap for my a/c and camper shell. I received it yesterday and it looks nice, but not being a mechanic, went back to him for more details regarding why he did not use it.
I am posting below his original 'heads up' comment, describing the problem ... and then the response when I asked for further information.
In looking at it as he described, I do see inside one injector 'hole' what looks to be a burned 'notch' at the bottom where the shield would be. The other 3 holes are not as noticable.
In your opinion(s) ... is this head usable ... or worthless?
If usable, is there a process I should consider to assure it being "very usable"? Dont' want to get out on the road and have it quit on me.
He refers to being sure using new shields ... which I am well aware of ... so is that "the answer"?
I also have another 1.6L head again completely rebuilt with new valves, guides and seals that I would give you for free. The catch with this head is I had it all redone by the local shop without thinking about popping the heat shields out a head of time, so once I got the head home and went to replace the heat shields, I found the seat area to be eroded a little under the shields. Well it may be that it works just fine that way, but I was not willing to risk it which is why I bought the other head I mentioned. I
Regarding the head. I am about as picky as they come about the mechanics of these things. If you take a light and shine it down the injector openings you will see a round seat area in the bottom of the opening. The heat shields a small round steel disc with a small opening for the injector seats against this ridge in the head. The heat shields are made to seal the combustion heat from the injector face. My guess is that who ever had this engine before me either did not torque the injectors properly or reused old head shields allowing a tiny bit of combustion gases to enter between the head sealing surface and the heat shield. Like I told you before, I am pretty sure most folks would just go ahead and use this head as is and if you do, be sure to buy new head shields and torque the injectors properly. Heat shields are cheap, less than $1 each at Halsey in Portland. Other than the heat shields that head is good to go all new valves, guides and seals installed.
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#1
by
Smokey Eddy
on 16 Apr, 2010 11:27
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Post a picture if you're actually concerned but from the sounds of it im sure its completely fine. cracking in the head is a much bigger issue than that.
The shields form a mating surface anyways so just so long as the injector boss can take the injector at full torque i see no problem.
then again i may be misunderstanding what is in question. please post a picture
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#2
by
rabbitman
on 16 Apr, 2010 12:12
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Maybe put so JB weld down the hole and after it cures you can "somehow" grind it smooth.
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#3
by
doonboggle
on 16 Apr, 2010 13:57
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No camera that we have can generate a visible picture of the notch inside the injector hole.
No cracks ... if you are thinking of the head itself.
I'm just concerned about what he indicated as the former owner of it, before he got it, not using new injector shields .... and the shoulder where they screw in being damaged.
Post a picture if you're actually concerned but from the sounds of it im sure its completely fine. cracking in the head is a much bigger issue than that.
The shields form a mating surface anyways so just so long as the injector boss can take the injector at full torque i see no problem.
then again i may be misunderstanding what is in question. please post a picture
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#4
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 16 Apr, 2010 18:36
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How can the head be reconditioned, if the heatshield ledge is part burnt away? Sounds like a boat anchor to me.
Maybe the notch is from flame corrosion, maybe due to some 'Superman', who overtightened an injector to stop a 'perceived' leak.
To photograph shine a torch down it, then even a mobile phone will get a pic...
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#5
by
745 turbogreasel
on 17 Apr, 2010 14:26
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I welded a handle to an injector seal, and used valve grinding paste to clean one up before.
I think I even made one into a cutter
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#6
by
doonboggle
on 17 Apr, 2010 18:37
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Post a pic to be sure we're all on the same page.
The little digital camera we have is not that type that takes close ups. So hope these are sufficient. Apologize if not ....
They are, in order, #4 piston ... front to rear ... for first 2 images; and then of #1 ... again front to rear, starting at left side of engine bay.
In #4 is the 'notch' I mentioned. Wife noticed that #1 also looked 'pretty chewed up" ... so we shot it also.
Regarding the possibility of 'cracks' as an earlier poster mentioned, I looked closely and cannot see any. The top of the valves are round 'cups' that slid off when I turned the head upside down ... but I was able to reinstall them ... they slid on real easy what with all the white grease present.
So, back to my question ... is this head ... with the apparent damage from not having the shields removed first before being 'rebuilt' ... usable with some degree of certainty?
Thanks
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#7
by
Smokey Eddy
on 17 Apr, 2010 23:23
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The JB Weld may have catastrophic results though if you get it all in the injector boss threads.
the last picture doesnt look too too bad but the first one is just weird.
i would try emery cloth on the end of a rubber hose and then jam a drill bit into the other end of the hose and try sanding it like that and just progress up the grits until its flat.
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#8
by
Smokey Eddy
on 17 Apr, 2010 23:24
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not too sure how you would affix the emery cloth to the hose... maybe a big screw through the emery cloth and into the rubber hose.
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#9
by
rabbitman
on 17 Apr, 2010 23:33
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If you cut it down too much I'd be afraid the injector would just push what was left right on through. If that held then the injector would still be a little farther INTO the precup area and might affect combustion.
You can coat the threads with grease and that should keep JB weld from getting it there and sticking.
I'd never run that as is, it'll probably keep burning away until it's leakin' past the injector.
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#10
by
macka
on 18 Apr, 2010 17:32
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take that baby to a welder to get the aluminium built up and then to a machinist to get them milled to spec. I've had a race head fixed by the weld and machine combo. It took a tonne of abuse before the crank let go. Its on my dad's car right now, still working. You need to make sure the welder knows how to weld that though. It needs a preheat and post heat so the metal doesn't become brittle and break.
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#11
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 19 Apr, 2010 06:42
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Can you clarify that the ridge that looks like the moon's crators where the heatshield rests on is not just greasy gluey crud; and is actually seriously depleated aluminium?
'Cus if it is, then unless you handed this 'fellow' a body shell in equally bad condition, then he has given you something not really fit for purpose 
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#12
by
doonboggle
on 19 Apr, 2010 07:58
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Not grease ... pitted as all get out.
Can you clarify that the ridge that looks like the moon's crators where the heatshield rests on is not just greasy gluey crud; and is actually seriously depleated aluminium?
'Cus if it is, then unless you handed this 'fellow' a body shell in equally bad condition, then he has given you something not really fit for purpose
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#13
by
doonboggle
on 19 Apr, 2010 14:09
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According to one purveyor of rebuilt heads back east, it cannot be done; due to the lack of a proper welding tip to get down inside the injector holes, and transfer aluminum material.
Have queries out to couple of other shops, so sure hope they come up with something...
take that baby to a welder to get the aluminium built up and then to a machinist to get them milled to spec. I've had a race head fixed by the weld and machine combo. It took a tonne of abuse before the crank let go. Its on my dad's car right now, still working. You need to make sure the welder knows how to weld that though. It needs a preheat and post heat so the metal doesn't become brittle and break.