Sway bars

[Runt]

I have read a bunch of different opinions on sway bars for the VWs, but it seems that none of them have given me all the information.
None of my diesel VWs (currently 91 mk2 Jetta TD) have had the factory rear torsion tube (about 20mm dia) inside the folded V shaped crossbar of the rear beam.  Is this a GTI only part, or were the diesels shorted, or   Does anyone know how much difference this tube makes?  If someone says they like a 25mm rear bar, I'd like to know if that is with or without the factory tube.  I do know that when I put Passat stuff in my first golf, I used the rear beam with the tube, and springs/struts (cut one coil), and it handled much better than stock.  Problem is I did it all at once, so I don't know what parts helped.
Also, does anyone know if there was a bigger front swaybar used in any of the mk2s?  I'll probably try a rather stiff rear bar, and then stiffen the front a little to balance things the way I want, so if there is something better than my factory front bar in a wreckers, it might save me a little money, and certainly give me a point of reference before I start ordering pricey aftermarket bars.

[bajacalal]

IIRC they came with the GTIs and GLIs (maybe for Europe, the GTDs too?). North America diesels generally got the economy package parts.

I have the whole rear axle in my garage from a 1991 Jetta with the disc brakes and torsion tube. It's waiting for the day I feel sufficiently motivated to install it. I'll let the board know how different the handling is when I get to that point.

[stewardc]

That's strange. Both my 1986 1.6 NA Jetta diesel and my 1992 Jetta GL 1.6 TD had the torque tube in the axle. Maybe it only came to Canada. Can any other Canadians comment?

[Runt]

That's strange. Both my 1986 1.6 NA Jetta diesel and my 1992 Jetta GL 1.6 TD had the torque tube in the axle. Maybe it only came to Canada. Can any other Canadians comment?

85 golf na, german built, canadian market
late 90/early 91 (small bumper reg'd as 91) jetta td german built, canadian market
91 jetta td german built, canadian market
None of them had the factory torque tube.  Your good luck, or my bad?  Oh well.  I'm going to add it to my jetta.  I've got the rear beam from the passat brake donor, I may take the tube out of it and weld it into the beam in my jetta.  I need to measure the tube, and compare it to a gti beam.  I'm also considering other options for the tube, as I suspect that I want more stiffness than the factory tube will give me.  That is why I want to know how much benefit the factory tube is, and if people like a 25mm bar with or without the factory tube.  Once I cut and weld in a tube, it is not an easy thing to adjust  or replace.  If a 25mm -28mm bar is good without the factory tube, then a solid 25mm (proper tempered spring steel, etc.) bar in the factory welded location should be ample.  If the 25-28 is on top of the factory bar, then I would be thinking 28-31 in the factory location.  I think I know of donor source for a 1-1/4" (about 31mm) bar that I could use, if not, I'll have to  get pricing from a spring shop to see if this makes  sense (financially).

[Rabbit on Roids]

just remember, passats are wider by quite a bit.

[bajacalal]

That's strange. Both my 1986 1.6 NA Jetta diesel and my 1992 Jetta GL 1.6 TD had the torque tube in the axle. Maybe it only came to Canada. Can any other Canadians comment?

How do you know that these were not added later, by a previous owner?

[stewardc]

That's strange. Both my 1986 1.6 NA Jetta diesel and my 1992 Jetta GL 1.6 TD had the torque tube in the axle. Maybe it only came to Canada. Can any other Canadians comment?

How do you know that these were not added later, by a previous owner?

Well, the 86 had been used for 8 months by a guy who was relocated. The 1992, however, was new right off the showroom floor. I remember thinking what an ingenious idea that was for a sway bar when I saw it up on the hoist the first time. That was the end of the Mk 2s, though, and mine, though a base model, was dressed like a GL. The dealer said VW always did that to use up excess stock at the end of a model run.

[burn_your_money]

I don't recall ever seeing a rear torque tube on any of my mk2 diesels. I've never really looked though. I have 3 right now. If it's not raining after work I'll climb under and have a look.

[burn_your_money]

Turns out I actually have 4, funny how that happens.

2 1989 TD Germany built Jettas - no torque tube
1 1991 TD Germany built Jetta - no torque tube
1 1991 NA Mexican built Golf - torque tube

[lord_verminaard]

'86 Westy Golf here, no sways front or rear.  And it sucks.

I think we are getting torque tube and rear sway confused.  AFAIK they are the same.  You can either have a rear beam or rear beam with swaybar.

I don't recall the actual sizes of the bars, but I know there were two different ones for A2 chassis, the standard GTI rear bar and the 16v GTI and GLI bar were bigger.  I think the fronts were both the same.

Brendan

[shortysclimbin]

I am running in the front of my mk2 a mk3 gti front bar 21mm IIRC and a shine rear bar.  I would say go with the shine first and see how you like it then add the front bar later since it is so much work.... I am running this on a mk3 lower end too so I have wider track width.

[Runt]

I am running in the front of my mk2 a mk3 gti front bar 21mm IIRC and a shine rear bar.  I would say go with the shine first and see how you like it then add the front bar later since it is so much work.... I am running this on a mk3 lower end too so I have wider track width.

Would the mk3 bar work with the mk2 subframe and lower control arms?  I was pretty positive that the b3 Passat bar would not fit, as the center had the bends in the wrong spot.  Please tell me I did not throw out a part that would have worked.     I do have the factory front sway bar, might be 15-18mm, something like that.

'86 Westy Golf here, no sways front or rear.  And it sucks.
I think we are getting torque tube and rear sway confused.  AFAIK they are the same.  You can either have a rear beam or rear beam with swaybar.
I don't recall the actual sizes of the bars, but I know there were two different ones for A2 chassis, the standard GTI rear bar and the 16v GTI and GLI bar were bigger.  I think the fronts were both the same.
Brendan

Yes, I used 'torque tube' to describe the rear swar bar to make sure that people knew that I meant the straight bar welded in, not an added on sway bar as most cars have.  Thanks for the info on the two different bars, at least now I have an idea of what to go out and measure to get a better idea, if not what to get parts from.

Turns out I actually have 4, funny how that happens.
2 1989 TD Germany built Jettas - no torque tube
1 1991 TD Germany built Jetta - no torque tube
1 1991 NA Mexican built Golf - torque tube

Can you tell if the sway bar/tube actually makes a difference?  Does the car with it ride flatter than the car without?  (I'm assuming that both cars have the front bar.)
Thanks everybody for the info.

[Rabbit on Roids]

sway bars lessen body roll, thats it. they dont make it ride any harsher or softer, least they shouldnt.

[truckinwagen]

really stiff sway bars will hurt ride quality, as they reduce the wheels ability to move independently of its counterpart.

generally with front wheel drive cars, a stiff bar in the rear, and a soft one(or none at all) in the front is the best for maintaining traction through the corner, that way you reduce body roll(with the rear swaybar) but don't unload the inside front tire(like you would if you had a stiff sway bar in the front)

makes the car look funny in a hard corner(can sometimes lift the inside rear wheel off the pavement) but will allow you to keep power to the pavement better.

[burn_your_money]

Can you tell if the sway bar/tube actually makes a difference?  Does the car with it ride flatter than the car without?  (I'm assuming that both cars have the front bar.)

No. The Jetta has blown suspension on all 4 corners and drives like a total bag.

The Golf has mk3 VR6 springs and is pretty harsh without an engine in the hatch.

Both do have the front sway bar but the end links are all worn out so it's not doing what it should.