Hello and recommendations for a TDI 4runner

[dcg9381]

I'm out of Austin, TX.
I've been lurking in your group for quite a while - registration apparently has been disabled until the site owner could patch up some site registration holes (due to spam).

I have a 1988 4runner that's in really good shape.  A few years ago, I did a plug-and-play megasquirt (custom EFI project) integrating the stock harness with a megasquirt unit the could be plugged into factory wiring.  Once I got that working, I converted it to a built turbo motor and have been driving it ever since.
The truck is up on www.22returbo.net.  We tuned it to run on gas or E85.

I largely retired the truck when gas went through the roof (it's get 15-18mpg on pump gas).

My interest now is pulling the turbo motor and converting it to TDI.  I really need 130-150 hp out of a motor that powers it.  After reading on this forum, I think what I'm after is a 2.0L TDI motor.  The issue seems to be that you can't retain the factory direct injection due to fairly complicated anti-theft system.

I believe that both the 1.9L and 2.0L TDI  motors can be bolted to my existing driveline via "acme adapters" in Canada.

I guess I'm looking for recommendations on a motor source - and a source for mechanical injection.  Honestly, I'm not wanting to build it myself or adapt it, but don't mind paying for a high quality solution that works well.  I understand that there are a few people /  shops making MDI conversions, but some of those solutions don't have a very good record in terms of customer satisfaction...

[theman53]

I don't know if you have thought of the IDI line? I think a 1.5 with a turbo and some pump mods would do 130 to 150...I wouldn't choose that as your platform*Don't choose anything with 11mm head bolts*. I am just saying the TDI's are complicated and the older ones just need diesel, air, and 12v to the fuel seleniod.
Many have gone over the 200HP mark with the 1.6L TD. I think if I recall 180 HP with all stock parts IE turbo, rods, block, head, but a Giles pump is common. Maybe some may have put a 1.9 AAZ head to change some stock part to another stock part, but you get the idea.
I think you could build one of the IDI's to this and have about the same money as you will have in buying a TDI setup that needs redone. I don't know about much of the TDI stuff, other than it is too pricey for me to play with though . I am sure others will have some ideas for you as well. Good luck and welcome.

[drrtybyl]

If I didn't already have a lead on an engine, I'd comb junk yards till I found a platform and go from there.  It would probably mean building a head or redoing a bottom end -- or both, but it will likely still be cheaper than buying/shipping something complete.

There seems to be an absurd amount of markup in complete VW diesel engines in TX due to their rarity and desirability...

If you find a pre-1999 TDI you won't have to worry about the immobilizer.  If you want to go mechanical TDI (mTDI), there's a ton of useful info on this forum as to what will or could work in place of the electronic fuel injection.

[macka]

You could go with a 94 IDI 1.9 and a Giles pump and save a chunk of change. Passats are pretty much looked over and if you are near Texarkana you can visit neighbouring states and save a couple of bucks.

[dcg9381]

I'm open and thankful for suggestions.

What years had the 1.9L IDI? 

My issue with buying on that old is that most will have pretty good mileage on them and probably require a rebuild instead of drop in...

If they're radically simpler, can do over 150hp reliably, and reliable - I'd certainly be willing to start in that direction...

[subsonic]

You could get 150hp out of either the IDI 1.6td or 1.9TD.  Drop in is a bit more difficult unless you find someone who has a hot engine built and sitting on a shelf.  The 1.9td was a cananda only engine.  It is available via some industrial applications here in the states.  I guess a quetion would be what the truck is used for and what you have on it for running gear / driveline / tires.  I have not checked out the build link yet.  HP is kind of a odd term in the diesel world as a lower HP engine may have more TQ then a counterpart.
Best and easiest availability will probably be a 2003 or earlier tdi out of a wrecked car.  You can do the whole ecu swap deal and run with a tuned ecu if you want.  Another option that removes a bunch of the electronics and simplifies the process is to run a M-TDI.  Mechanical control, ecu eliminated.
The most important part of a m-tdi swap is a correctly modified m-tdi pump.  You run a pump that someone has hobbled together and you will never get the power you need.  It will always be so-so.
Get a m-tdi pump from a reputable builder.  They will build it to to compliment your driving style and needs.
Giles and tintin off the top of my head.  I think baxter may build as well.  Research the pump and builder more then the actual engine.

[dcg9381]

Best and easiest availability will probably be a 2003 or earlier tdi out of a wrecked car.  You can do the whole ecu swap deal and run with a tuned ecu if you want.  Another option that removes a bunch of the electronics and simplifies the process is to run a M-TDI.  Mechanical control, ecu eliminated.

running an 03+ TDI on a custom ECU requires an expensive injection pump, correct?
I'd love to have a laptop programmable diesel ECU (similar to what I have now) - but don't want to have to retain anti-theft and integrate another wiring harness.  If I could get it down to ECU + engine harness, that would be fine, however, I've seen the paired down wiring harnesses and honestly, it's not something that I care to learn or go through right now.  

M-TDI is preferable to me for the above reason.  I've seen commentary on the cobbled-together solutions and know to avoid them.  I'll seek more information on the pump once I've decided on a motor.  Advantages to the 2003+ TDI motors?  What to look for?  (I'm in the states)



Desired torque is in the 250 ft/lbs range.

31" tires.  Rear axle is 4.10.  Final drive (overdrive) is .850.  I'm geared a little bit high for a diesel (3200 rpm at highway) - but this is easy to take care of.  Replacing the entire driveline is not, which is why I like the acme adapter set.

Truck is mainly a pleasure / camping vehicle / project vehicle.  Occasional light towing (1500 lbs or less).  I'm after the torque, reliability, and mileage of the diesel application.  Toyota does have drop-in diesels that can be imported, but reliability on the 2.0L variety isn't great, nor is part support in the USA.

Searching local yards (online) there seems to be a good selection of 1.9L motors, under 80k.. (01-03 Jetta, Golf, Beetle)

[theman53]

Get a 1.9L IDI put a good turbo on it and be done then 

[dcg9381]

I have lots of experience with turbos...

IDI would be great, but when I dig and try to find sources for the 1.9L IDI motor, I come up with:
'93-'98 GOLF/Jetta sold in Canada only


I'm about.. oh, 30 hours away from Canada..

The motors I can find in the states (easily) are 01-03 Jettas.. I assume are TDI.  To use the TDI, I need the expensive mechanical conversion (M-TDI) - and what else?  (Or keep the efi)

The TDI may be a better option for me, as I can get parts locally and won't have to import from the cold yonder north (Canada)...

[theman53]

yes you need the M-TDI pump and everything else that you would need for the regular IDI swap for the 01-03 TDI engines you are looking at.
The 1.9IDI is a Canada only item, but can be found in the for sale section here as well as ebay regularly.

The 1.6L IDI turbo diesel would do it too.

[dcg9381]

Thanks.  I think I'll talk to giles - who seems to have the best record for mTDI conversions.

It's hard for me to wrap my head around going from a 2.4L gas/turbo motor to a 1.6L diesel and getting what I want out of it...  I also need to consider parts availability.

[theman53]

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=10690.120

Look at the very top and very bottom of this thread. It is documented as doable, but like everything it takes work.

I dont' know how readily available the TDI stuff is in your area, but around here it is big $$$ just to find one that needs redone. Good luck whichever way you go.

[rabbitman]

Thanks.  I think I'll talk to giles - who seems to have the best record for mTDI conversions.

It's hard for me to wrap my head around going from a 2.4L gas/turbo motor to a 1.6L diesel and getting what I want out of it...  I also need to consider parts availability.

haha yeah it is a big drop in displacement!!!

Most parts for the 1.6 are everywhere, there's a few weird stuff that normally doesn't need replacing that are harder to get.

Another option is a 1.6 bottom end with a 1.9idi head, gives a lower CR so you can get fit more air into the engine.

The 1.9 (aaz) head will fit directly on a 1.6 with hydro lifters, a mechanical 1.6 takes more work but has been done.

IIRC you didn't want to build an engine though.........

[subsonic]

running an 03+ TDI on a custom ECU requires an expensive injection pump, correct?
I'd love to have a laptop programmable diesel ECU (similar to what I have now) - but don't want to have to retain anti-theft and integrate another wiring harness.  If I could get it down to ECU + engine harness, that would be fine, however, I've seen the paired down wiring harnesses and honestly, it's not something that I care to learn or go through right now. 

If you swap over the ecu and harness, you are good to go with the injection pump that is on the engine.  Tune till you are content.  Perhaps a different turbo and or larger injectors, big downpipe with free flowing exhaust and you are good.  How to get rid of the anti-theft crap is beyond me.

The m-tdi will be the easiest setup, but you will need to swap the pump, perhaps sell the ecu to help offset?

With IDI's ,If you are looking for TQ I would l lean more towards to 1.9td.  Like mentioned above, they can be had in the states.  Finding one that is a low mileage unit, in great shape, that is in drop in condition would be a bit of a challange.  For complexity, they are way more simple then the TDI.  Just older and harder to find.

[dcg9381]

I dont' know how readily available the TDI stuff is in your area, but around here it is big $$$ just to find one that needs redone. Good luck whichever way you go.

Just searching online there are a few in driving / pickup range, under 85k miles.  Cost $2000 USD.  I'd change the seals out, new timing belt, and call those motors done...

That little Rabbit did pretty good on the dyno... Still, better perhaps to start a little closer to that HP level to start with.

Is there a good way to adapt a T3 to a TDI motor?