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#45
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 08:42
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700rpm difference, I wish to keep the .71 5th. I have not touched the oil, it could very well be the problem. What weight oil and how much of it do i need? Also how does one go about getting the drain plug out? and where is the fill plug?
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#46
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 08 Apr, 2010 09:11
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i took a 17mm bolt, welded a nut on the other end, and made a drain plug tool. the drain is on the bottom, the fill is in the side. right next to the green cover you have already removed. same plug as the drain. trans takes about 2 quarts of oil, just standard 80/85/90 wt gear oil works. im sure VW calls for some special VW transmission oil, but i just use 90wt.
and i was not aware that you had a .71 already. and i missed that it was a 3.94 with a .89 fifth. that really would suck. my AUG had 3.67s and a .89 and it still screamed in fifth, i cant imagine how the AWY will be. and its not gonna have a very tall fourth gear if it has a .89 fifth. crap, now that im looking at it, its the same layout as an AUG, but with a 3.94 final instead of 3.67, so yea, its gonna be a BIG JUMP into fifth gear. just beware.
another thing, depending on the date of your trans, you may have to pull the speedo cable and dump in around another half quart of oil in after you get it filled up.
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#47
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 09:15
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would bad fluid cause this problem to happen within the hour though? I mean i was driving it all yesterday morning, and then just nothing.
Here is another little thing i noticed when i was outside. I got it to operating temperature and let it sit for like a half hour, in that half hour i had brief periods of holding it at or around 4000 rpm if anything was gonna fly off the clutch it woulda done it... nothing still same crap. However i noticed that with the clutch in and car running, trying to go for a gear makes the engine rpm decrease.. why is this?
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#48
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 10:47
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Ok how does the trans work..
You push the clutch pedal which lifts the lever on the front of the trans, which turns a spline shaft that has the little arm on it, that pushes the throwout bearing towards the engine.. Then what happens? the rest is internal and I do not know how it works. Up until that point everything else is working as intended..
When the Throw Out bearing is pushed in, what happens? does it physically move something to allow the clutch to slide away from the PP? what causes the Clutch to want to slide away from the PP? is it a sprung ordeal in there?
Sorry for the rambling I am just trying to figure out why it is doing this all of a sudden, with no real reasons to not work...
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#49
by
rabbitman
on 08 Apr, 2010 11:24
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The throw out bearing pushes the clutch rod which in turn pushes the clutch open
, go here for more info:
http://www.brokevw.com/When you try putting it in gear and it bogs down it's the syncros trying to do their job but can't with the clutch dragging so hard.
I'd say your tranny's fine, you clutch has issues.
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#50
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 11:39
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On the backside of the throwout bearing is a simple rod call the pushrod. It goes out through the center of the transmission input shaft through a little hole with a seal and bushing behind it. When this tiny seal starts to leak, transmission fluid can make its way to the clutch disc friction pads and contaminate them. This problem caused grabbing during engagement.
The rod hits the center of the a plate call the thrust plate. The center of that plate is just a plug of metal that should have a bit of grease on it. Sometimes the plug wears out, the rod pokes through, and you are hosed.
The rod pushes the thrust plate against the spring fingers of the pressure plate. This is the reaction force you feel when pushing in the clutch pedal. This causes the face ring of the pressure plate to draw back off the flywheel. Since the clutch disc is sandwiched between the pressure plate and the flywheel, the disc breaks free of both flywheel and pressure plate.
The clutch disc rides the input shaft of the transmission. So, when the clutch disc is free, the transmission shaft winds-down since it is not longer under power. If for some reason the disc is not free to slide around on the input shaft, it may bind on the flywheel and pressure plate, resulting in difficulty changing gears and grinding problems as the transmission is not fully disengaged.
Lack of satisfactory lubricant and corrosion on the clutch disc splines can cause binding of the clutch disc hub. That is why some lubricant for the input shaft spines is included in some clutch kits, and why some clutch hubs are nickel-plated, to reduce seizing.
I still have a stiff resistance, same as before.. so i don't think the Pushrod has gone through the thrust plate.. however the clutch does appear to not be disengaging from the flywheel and PP...
Wait a tic here, if the pushing of the peddle pulls the PP away from the clutch.. and the clutch disc were fused to either of the two faces, would it not still pull one of the face away? either PP from the fused clutch/flywheel combo or the PP/clutch combo away from the powered flywheel? Something isn't adding up here...
The clutch disk slides back and forth on the the splined input shaft? maybe its the PP that is stuck in place? sandwiching the clutch in there.. and not allowing anything to happen...
Whats the course of action guys? How do you even drop a tranny out of one of these? Bell housing bolts, and driver side mount?
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#51
by
Vincent Waldon
on 08 Apr, 2010 12:33
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Here's a picture to aid in the conversation:
The clutch plate transfers energy from the flywheel to the splined inputshaft on the tranny. The pressure plate forces the clutch plate against the flywheel normally.. this pressure is released when you depress the clutch via the throwout bearing and pushrod.
If there's a relationship between you washing the head and your clutch problems it's possibly:
- water got into the clutch assembly via the uncovered inspection hole
- clutch disk is now rusted onto the splined input shaft, so doesn't disengage properly even when you release the pressure plate tension via the clutch pedal
There's a chance that the rust is slight and is just causing a little binding that might break loose...unfortunately I can't think of a way to help break it loose other than exercise the clutch a lot while accelerating and decelerating (to make the clutch disk rock on the splined shaft). Spraying something into the clutch might break the rust free but will muck up the dlsk friction material.
You could try that... start the car in gear and then accelerate and accelerate hard with the clutch to the floor... the rocking might break the splines loose.
Otherwise the tranny has to come out... can be done with the engine in the car supported by a cross-engine brace... Bentley has the proceedure.
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#52
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 17:35
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Guys, a beer for everyone
Vince your idea for starting the car in gear and accelerate kinda worked, I couldn't get it to catch and actually drive away.. However I lurched it back and forth in first and reverse about three times and VOILA! heard a nice click, and CLUTCH! Thank you all very much for your advice
However now that I have it fixed I want to do more to potentially mess it up again.. lmao
I wish to change the trans oil for one, and for two I noticed that the shifter bushings have taken the front to back play in the shifter while in gear, but there is still side to side play in gear.. I haven't had a chance to really look at where the play is being made.. but does anyone have any suggestions?
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#53
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 21:02
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GAP says this is a 4spd long rod... that's what I have in my car, could it be the reason i can't hit fifth properly? just not goin over far enough?
I most certainly do not have this 5spd rod..
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#54
by
rabbitman
on 08 Apr, 2010 21:07
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I've found that none of the rods are perfect....the long ones like to rub stuff, it might help though.
It was probably a 4 speed once upon a time. Check the relay ball or whatever it's called, 4 and 5 speed takes a different size.
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#55
by
8v-of-fury
on 08 Apr, 2010 21:09
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yeah it looks as though the 4spds take a smaller ball, its got a little play but only because of the obvious wear on the ball.. Wouldn't a 4spd rod be never intended to hit fifth? could be my issue.. me thinks
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#56
by
maxfax
on 09 Apr, 2010 12:25
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That'd be my guess.. Even with everything tight, there just isn't enough adjustment to hit 5th with a 4 speed rod.. I've already just bent the 4 speed rod to get things to work.. Kinda of a PITA but it's cheap...