K24/T-3 Turbo - anygood??

[blackdogvan]

 SCROLLING TEXT??? Finally something cool from this thread!!  

GEEZ thats distracting tho...


Trolling for an arguement should be done on the vortex... not here.

[stewardc]

I really appreciate your willingness to imitate a semi-conscious buffoon for the amusement of myself and the others on this forum.  You're right, I can't resist that degree of tomfoolery.  Thanks for the laugh!   

Buddy, you've gotta learn to lighten up.

[macka]

OK so it really comes down to your application. In stock form a T2 or K14 would be adequate, however once you start changing things its all down to your choice of how you want the car to perform for you. Its going to be a lot of research, more then one question, and a bit of tuning it yourself. I hope other people can chime in on topic here.
 Now here is what I have planned. I am going with a T3 and a giles pump, I am not looking for massive power, just better acceleration to get to speed. I am also going to bigger nozzles and adding a EGT gauge to keep track of temps. When I get a good mix of fuel, acceleration and EGT, I'll be happy.

[stewardc]

Back on topic and the original question.
The T3/K24 is a great big simple turbo. At sea level you will get some lag, but no more than a stock 1.6TD. After all, the T3 came stock on the 1.6 TD. They are not high-teck, they are not new, they are not complicated and they'll pump out 25 psi all day. Keep the oil supplied to them, and I've had T3s pump out 10psi for 600,000km with no problems whatsoever.

[stewardc]

OK so it really comes down to your application. In stock form a T2 or K14 would be adequate, however once you start changing things its all down to your choice of how you want the car to perform for you. Its going to be a lot of research, more then one question, and a bit of tuning it yourself. I hope other people can chime in on topic here.
 Now here is what I have planned. I am going with a T3 and a giles pump, I am not looking for massive power, just better acceleration to get to speed. I am also going to bigger nozzles and adding a EGT gauge to keep track of temps. When I get a good mix of fuel, acceleration and EGT, I'll be happy.

My sentiments exactly. It sure moves my Caddy along nicely.

[macka]

Yea I think I will be going to 25 PSI or so, or at least that was the idea. FWIW I totally neglected looking at the other stuff you stuff you mentioned. I have an intercooler I bought from here, I am using TT bushes in my suspension and will be upgrading it more with braces and coil overs. I'm at low altitude (about 600-1000 feet above sea on average), for the most part. Money isn't tight but I won't spend for a part to say I have it. I'm also reading a lot here, and have gone over everything in the English section, and working on the French section which is tough with my limited knowledge of French.
   I will be asking more questions as I run into problems, and I know I will. The one thing that is for sure in upgrading, is if you don't research and look at other peoples set up, you will be setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

Ok i gotta interject and add my 2 cents worth.
here is my experience with my Passat, 1993 1.9L AAZ.

i used to have a T2 running stock before i bought the car. excessive play so i tried to overhaul it and the small shaft was
too badly worn to rebuild.
we put on a good used K14 and a Giles pump and turned up the boost to 20psi.
it ran really well and gave you an amazing kick in the pants at 17-1800 rpm and full boost by 2300 and held up to about 3700
then dropped off until 5000. 
my best run with this combination was 8.4 sec 0-60 and 16.4 1/4 mile at 78 mph.
this used turbo didn't last too long with the stress and i took it off before it blew up as it was leaking quite bad into the inter cooler.
i then put on a used T3 that did have some play as i wanted to compare the two turbos back to back so to speak.
the used T3 def took longer to spool up and i told Tyler i hated it as i was used the quick spool up of the K14 and no quick kick
in the pants anymore. I gave it a chance and got used to it now.
it starts to give boost at about 1800 and i can get full boost by 2800, 2nd gear and up that is. 1st gear no more than 13psi any
time.  Driving up hill in 5th gear (i'm using TDI tranny) and revving only 1800rpm it will pickup boost and go up the hill no problem.
so here are the result with the T3 turbo.  0-60 8.2sec and 1/4 mil 16.2 sec at 82mph. you can see that the T3 outperformed the k14 i still like the way the k14 feels but now i am used to it. Fuel mileage was exactly the same with both. if i could get a VNT to give me the kick of the K14 and the top end of the T3 i would be a very happy man.


Giles

[RadoTD]

Now how much boost could a T3 reliably push with a lightly ported head and big exhaust?

For 30+ would an HX35 make more sense? Possibly K14+HX35? 

[burn_your_money]

In regards to Giles car I found it uncomfortable to drive with the K14. I'd be going along lightly in the parking lot and all of a sudden it would build some boost and just take off. It wasn't smooth, even power. Now that he has the T3 on there the power comes on nice and steady all the way up.

I still think the best turbo is no turbo. My 1.9NA is the bees knees.

[stewardc]

I agree on the T3, as I said before. Great work, Giles. This is the type of statistics I've been looking for.

1.9NA. Hmmmmmmm. I sure would like to drive that sometime. I always felt that engine had the potential to provide good power without a turbo.

[Otis2]

It would be handy to compare pressure maps for the various turbos on an AAZ, rather than just compare subjective opinions from butt-dynos.

I'll start with posting some T3 maps.

JackBombay calculated these maps for an AAZ engine mounted with a T3 (from a 1.6TD).  His comments were taken from http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3122870 .  He points out that the maximum efficiency "island" of a T3 is only 70%, which is exceeded by modern turbos like the VNT, but even so, the flexibility is pretty good.

Thats a nice looking map, A full 3:1 PR which is pretty rare for turbos small enough to work on our small diesels, and it still moves almost 20 lbs of air/minute.

Here are a few points plotted, fwiw,

3400 RPM, 10 PSI, at sea level, right in the efficiency island, it is a little lower at only %70, but its still pretty sweet.



The same 3400 RPM, 10 PSI but at 6000'



now 3400 RPM, 15 PSI, at sea level,



And 3400 RPM, 15 PSI at 6000'



And here are a few high RPM high boost at seal level and 6000'

4500 RPM, 17 PSI, sea level,



4500 RPM, 17 PSI, 6000'



That turbo can run 19 PSI up to 8,000' and still be on the map! Although at sea level it can only run 1 PSI more and stay on the map, 20 PSI at 4500 RPM at 0' puts it right on the edge of the map as does 19 PSI at 8000'. Which is really nice as you can set it to 18 PSI and forget about it, unless you are going to be WAY high in the mountains you'd still be running it within spec at WOT, but its not like you're going to be running around at WOT all day anyway.

[4wheeler]

Hmmm.... Now who do I know with a VNT20 for sale... o right me.

How much are these worth?  are they seperate from teh manifold (top mount?

[andy2]

I still think the best turbo is no turbo. My 1.9NA is the bees knees.

You didn't actually go out of your way to remove the turbocharger from your engine did you?
How is this the bees knees?

[burn_your_money]

I sure did. It's the bees knees for many reasons. Fuel economy, lack of crap in the way when I need to fix stuff, less stuff to break, good power, and cheaper to maintain to name a few things.

There are still quite a few mods I want to do to my engine to get it even more enjoyable.

[andy2]

I would have thought that adding a turbocharger like a k14 to your current setup for example would have benifited fuel ecomomy.Wasn't that the whole deal with the ECO's ?

Basically you have a non turbo fueled engine that takes advantage of the waste heat to inerease both power and economy.