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New BOSCH Injector Pump--COLD START CONNECTION
by
vanagondiesel
on 22 Oct, 2005 14:44
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My new Bosch injector pump arrived for my 1.6 Caddy A-1 non turbo.
Ok, now the $64,000 question
The new pump has an electrical advancement over the manual cold start cable. On a A-1 engine, what do I connect, or tap onto, to make this
electrical cold start activate.
Maybe put in a switch on the dash that activates it? Clearly it would only need power when you first turn the key on. So I am thinking that a switch on the dash that would momentarily power the cold start would be appropriate
Comments? :roll:
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#1
by
chrissev
on 23 Oct, 2005 10:01
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My new Bosch injector pump arrived for my 1.6 Caddy A-1 non turbo.
Ok, now the $64,000 question
The new pump has an electrical advancement over the manual cold start cable. On a A-1 engine, what do I connect, or tap onto, to make this
electrical cold start activate.
Maybe put in a switch on the dash that activates it? Clearly it would only need power when you first turn the key on. So I am thinking that a switch on the dash that would momentarily power the cold start would be appropriate
Comments? :roll:
you're saying that the cold start cable on this pump is electrically operated? I've never seen that on an A1 pump. Is it possible to pull the cold start out manually? If so maybe you want to just hook it up to the old dashboard pull out cold start cable on your Caddy and forget about the electric cold start. Not sure how that would even work, it'd need either a sensor on the engine somewhere or a timer of some sort. Sounds like an interesting project for later anyway. Good luck with it.
Chris
PS: is the electrical connector possibly supposed to be connected to some sort of warning light for the cold start cable being pulled out? Just a thought
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#2
by
Blades
on 23 Oct, 2005 10:35
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sounds like an AAZ mk3 pump.
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#3
by
QuickTD
on 23 Oct, 2005 11:23
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This cold start setup is also used on some larger engines like some B series cummins engines and the BMW524TD. There are 2 variations of this system. Some, (the BMW) use a valve that immediatly advances the timing when actuated. On the BMW it is connected to a coolant temperature actuated switch that shuts off at ~140º.
You can check if yours is this type of advance unit by connecting a jumper from battery + to the connector on the solenoid while the engine is running. The diesel "clatter" will get very noticably louder when the valve is energized. If this test works, you can either get a normally closed temperature switch and wire the valve through it to the ignition circuit or connect it to a manual switch on the dash and turn it on for cold starting/warmup.
The other variation of this system (used on some VE pump cummins engines) uses an electrically heated expansion element to actuate the advance valve. In this system the valve is wired directly to the ignition circuit. When cold the expansion element actuates the timing advance valve. When the ignition is turned on and the engine started the heater warms the expansion element and slowly disengages the advance as the engine warms up. This system is similar in function to the electric choke used on carburated gasoline engines.
You can test for this type of system the same way as before, connect a jumper from battery + to the terminal on the valve (start with a cold engine). If your system is this type you won't notice any immediate change in engine sound, the diesel clatter" will diminish slowly over the course of several minutes. If this is the case you can simply run a jumper from the valve to the fuel cutoff solenoid.
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#4
by
vwmike
on 23 Oct, 2005 14:20
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I have a Cummins 4B pump with this on it but I removed it because I have no idea where the advance would max out. Unfortunately if the electronic advance doesn't work out for you then swapping back to the cable type advance would require disassembly of most of the pump as the piston probably doesn't have the provisions for the cable type advance.
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#5
by
vanagondiesel
on 23 Oct, 2005 20:53
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This pump was built by BOSCH. For the 1.6 non turbo. It looks identical to the old factory EXCEPT it does not have the cable
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-DIESEL-Bosch-1-6-Fuel-Pump-FACTORY-NEW-OEM_W0QQitemZ8008652913QQcategoryZ33555QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemI bought this pump and have been struggling with it all day today. It wont run. I lined up all the timing marks, but the engine does not fire. I removed it, put an older core on, and it fired. Put the new pump back on, and nada.
I'm in contact with the seller asking for advice and return for another pump.
BUT, it does not have the cable advancement, so I am guessing I need to lean that pump pretty advanced if and when it does run
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#6
by
vwmike
on 23 Oct, 2005 23:34
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How are you bleeding the new pump?
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#7
by
vanagondiesel
on 24 Oct, 2005 19:11
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I thought I was a wizzard when it came to VW Diesel engines. I've probably owned 50 over the years. I've replaced numerous pumps in my Vanagons, my Dashers, my Bunnys, even my Jettas...
This was a first time install of a NEW pump. It did not prime at first, so I used an old standby hack method of putting an electric low pressure pump between the filter and the pump connecting it to the on/off switch.
I turned the key on and let it run til the nipples on the injectors were bubling.
BTW, it never did fire the motor, yet when I installed a core pump I could get
the engine to at least try and start.
The company is sending me another pump, this time.......I will crack the
injection lines, crank the throttle open FULL, hook up a starter button, put the 200 amp battery booster on full, and let it crank.....
I've got all the TDC indicators lined up, flywheel, cam has the block, and the injection pump I match the notches...both on the pully and on the bracket...
I will fill the pump with fuel manually this time, leaving the injection lines open so when they begin to leak fuel I know at least it is getting fuel.
YOU KNOW this is not rocket science...(dahhh that is why I own them)
Compression,.....(LOADS), air, and fuel....timing correct it should fire
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#8
by
chrissev
on 26 Oct, 2005 16:02
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I think with the new or rebuilt pumps when you prime them you need to do it backwards. Ie prime from the fuel return hole and fill the pump up that way. Either that or you can fill it from the shut off solenoid hole by removing the solenoid. Just a thought anyway.
Regarding the cold start, you don't need it. My jetta with a 1.6TD and a rebuilt pump will start from cold at -20 degrees without the cold start being pulled out. I usually start it first, then pull the cold start to stabilize the idle and stop it from shaking so much. But I could just keep my foot down and it would run until it warmed up without the cold start. I see you are located in California. You should have no problem starting your car without the cold start in that climate! I wish I could see a picture of your pump. Went to ebay but the sale has ended and there is no pic anymore. That way I would have more of an idea what you are working with.
You're right, though, fuel, correct time, and compression and it should kick over at least. Maybe the electrical connection that you noticed on the pump has something to do with fuel shut-off?
good luck with it,
chris
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#9
by
vanagondiesel
on 27 Oct, 2005 09:25
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The seller in the Bay Area fed ex'd me a new pump. Seems the arm was off on the original one. It is installed. I used a remote starter, an electric fuel pump to prime the hell out of everything, BUT took the electric pump off!
I found a very slight bend in the plastic line near the fuel tank. Replaced that. Possible restriction?
Starterbutton, FULL THROTTLE, REPEAT glow plugs reset, and POP! I got fire, one injector at a time....repeated start each time it started coming back from the dead,,,finally all 4 were popping like an old John Deere
Without a downpipe this little 1.6 Bunny truck sounded like a 12 cylinder race car. OF course.......I played with the sound and smoke. It really was loud!
Neighbor across the street who works nites appeared in my driveway@ BOOOHOOO! :twisted: Damn...!
Got the truck running. Very slight miss which is a dirty injector. I may drive it off or pull the injectors period with new ones installed. WHAT THE HECK I'm into a new pump lets go new injectors too!
I found that the original pump liked 1 cog toward the head. The new pump wouldnt even fire at that position. It wanted and got, directly in the middle of the pump. The notch it straight middle.
In running I found the engine seemed to like the timing backed off a bit from full leaning towards the head.
As for NOT having a cold start.....time will tell.
The electrical advancement on the front of the pump will be hooked up to a switch on the dash for on/off too see what happens there...
:lol: