No start, glow plugs not getting hot, but no smoke

[francocorrado]

Hello guys, first post and I'm asking for help sorry

My '82 rabbit 1.6L NA won't start.  It was running fine a few months ago, but after sitting for those few months, it just won't start.

Here's the deal:  Glow plug relay ticking on then ticking off, bus bar fuse intact, brand new battery.

Cracked the top of the injectors to check for fuel, but only 1 & 4 are bubbling, 2 and 3 have nothing.  I'm pretty sure the glow plugs are shot, after several cycles, they are still stone cold to the touch.

Thanks so much guys.

[rabbitman]

For the GP's, this: http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=28

If the GP's worked then 1 & 4 should be able to start it up and then the other two would bleed pretty quick.

[francocorrado]

After about twenty minutes of cranking and holding a rag soaked in gasoline to the intake manifold, still nothing.  The middle two injectors, 2 and 3 are getting no fuel at all, quite strange. 

The timing is correct, or at least it was some months ago, I doubt it would have magically changed overnight.  Its not like the injectors are bad either, they're just not getting fuel.  I know it takes some cranking to get the air out, and there are still bubbles coming out of the pump after cranking, but for 2 and 3 to get no fuel at all is weird.

Any suggestions?  Thanks again lads.

[SolarSteve]

Check downstream for air leaks.  All clamped connections, the fuel filter and the water separator if you have one.

One of the best way to search for air leaks is to install a small piece of clear tubing and while someone else cranks watch the tube for bubbles.

[macka]

did you pull the lines right off and use a bucket to catch the fuel? If all the ports on the pump fire, you have either plugged lines or bunged injectors. If 2&3 don't squirt fuel, then you have pump issues.

[francocorrado]

This whole thing just got even weirder.

Took the glow plugs out, tested each one with jumper cables, they all lit up super hot within seconds, so I put them back in.  Fiddled with the relay under the dash, which has been clicking on and off the whole time, seems like a bad connection between the relay and LED dash light, because it flickers on and off if you move the relay.  Either way, not essential to the plugs working.

Figured I'd cut out the middle man and just throw a 75amp switch from the parts store between 30 and 87 on the relay socket.  Still nothing.  Figured I'd get even simpler and ran the switch between the battery and the bus bar and still they did not get hot.  Getting 12v, but not getting hot.

I talked to some diesel truck guys that I know (texas is riddled with them ) and they told me, that as long as my compression is good (don't know that it is, but it was running a few months ago) I could just spray some wd-40 in the intake and it would start regardless of the plugs.  Tried that for ages still nothing.

The previous owner put two clear lines to the pump.  The bottom one is the IN correct?  (new to diesels )  That hose has only the occasional bubble when cranking.  The return, only bubbles come out when its just stopped cranking.

Can an IP just go bad over night?  I'm thinking about putting all new lines from the tank to the filter to the IP, just to eliminate any possible introduction of air.

Thanks for helping out a diesel newbie, I love this car so much and it was a blast when it ran, I can't wait to DD it again

[Familydiesel]

In terms of your fuel delivery problem, as you surmised, your system could have some air leak before the injection pump.  Your idea to replace the lines before the injection pump is a good one.  If you want to assure yourself that your system is bled properly you could bleed the system to make sure you are getting solid fuel to the injection pump.  If you want to try this, disconnect the inlet line (line from fuel filter to the injection pump) at the injection pump, place a container under it.  Then pressurize the tank by putting air to the filler tube.  Push fuel out the line until pure fuel is coming out.  Then, hook it back up and crack the injector lines again to see if you get any fuel out of 2, 3.  If so, then you either had air in the sytem or you may have an injection pump leak (check the seals).  If not, you may have an injection pump problem, maybe it is cloged with something or something has happened to it.   

Your glow system is another story.  Yours is the second post where someone had a running vehicle, either let it sit or raised it on an incline and then it wouldn't start. 

Are you sure you are getting power to each glow plug?  If they work out of the vehicle, then check to make sure they at least have power at the bus.  What else have you tried since your last post in terms of power getting to the glow plugs?   

[Vincent Waldon]

Getting 12v, but not getting hot.

The block is a huge heat sink, so don't worry if you can't feel them get too hot.  You've proven that they work, so as long as the buss bar is getting power and the block is grounded you're good to go, at least from a glow-plug perspective.

You've confirmed the buss bar is getting power directly?

[francocorrado]

In terms of your fuel delivery problem, as you surmised, your system could have some air leak before the injection pump.  Your idea to replace the lines before the injection pump is a good one.  If you want to assure yourself that your system is bled properly you could bleed the system to make sure you are getting solid fuel to the injection pump.  If you want to try this, disconnect the inlet line (line from fuel filter to the injection pump) at the injection pump, place a container under it.  Then pressurize the tank by putting air to the filler tube.  Push fuel out the line until pure fuel is coming out.  Then, hook it back up and crack the injector lines again to see if you get any fuel out of 2, 3.  If so, then you either had air in the sytem or you may have an injection pump leak (check the seals).  If not, you may have an injection pump problem, maybe it is cloged with something or something has happened to it.   

Your glow system is another story.  Yours is the second post where someone had a running vehicle, either let it sit or raised it on an incline and then it wouldn't start. 

Are you sure you are getting power to each glow plug?  If they work out of the vehicle, then check to make sure they at least have power at the bus.  What else have you tried since your last post in terms of power getting to the glow plugs?   

The car was on a bit of an incline now that you mention it.  The 2 and 3 injectors work now after realizing that the stop solenoid was hooked up to a homemade switch on the dash   I guess it has been a long time since I drove it last.

So the IN line for the pump is on top of the pump or to the left and down?  The one from the filter goes to lower left inlet.

Getting 12v, but not getting hot.

The block is a huge heat sink, so don't worry if you can't feel them get too hot.  You've proven that they work, so as long as the buss bar is getting power and the block is grounded you're good to go, at least from a glow-plug perspective.

You've confirmed the buss bar is getting power directly?

Yessir, I just thought the block or at least the outside tips of the glow plugs would feel warm.  But yes the bus is getting 12v.

Thanks for all the help lads, its so close.  I'm pretty sure its got glowing plugs now and fuel to all injectors, but still not starting.  The timing has not been touched, does anyone think that could just go after sitting for a few months?  Sounds a bit far off, randomly losing compression sounds more likely after lots of cranking.  I would have compression tested it already but I'm an hour away from the only place that I know that could get me the injector heat shields.  Busy, busy, busy.