1.6 cy TD bottom end 1.9 aaz head project

[maxfax]

Thanks Libby!   NIKD, it's what he said..  Someday I will learn to wear my specs..  

The general concensus would be that you need a hydro block.. However................

AS far as using a mech block with a hydro head READ this thread... http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0

The exact combo you want is discussed in there, with better specs as far as comp ratio and such..

Where are you getting a pump from for $350?   That sounds a bit too cheap for a "rebuilt" pump..  

Oil cooler for sure..    They came with them from the factory..   Not great oil coolers, but an oil cooler none the less..

[maxfax]

Well, in further looking CY was ALSO a later hydraulic lifter TD block as well (I happen to have two CY blocks in my garage and one is solid lifter and one is hydraulic, lol).  Same deal as the MF.  So, it could be either.

That's fun!!  THe list I have been gathering listed the CY as a hydro from an '86-'88 Passat..  Then I look down the list further and they had the Quantum listing.. Yet they only have the MF listed as a mech engine..  Time to add some more notes...

[NintendoKD]

looks like this post isn't just helping me.. but now for the bad news my block is......... mech *sigh*  I really don't want to sink more money into this than I have to.  I'll leave the head modification for another build, anyone want to trade a mech turbo 1.6 block for a hydro one? seriously?........ anybody.  As much fun as it would be "trust me it's tempting" my wife is really beaming me over the head about this so I need to get it done and fast... and cheaply somewhat "you get what you pay for"  I am going with the hydro type for ease of use *ugh* "can't believe I am doing this"  I really want to take more time on this, but I just can't for previously mentioned reasons.  HE HE! jealous of my find on the pump are we? "gotta love crackheads" they need money and you need stuff, works out great for both parties, no, but seriously, no cackhead, but a real 1.6 turbo injection pump for $350.00 rebuilt, and if you try to snatch it from under my nose you are too late I already arranged shipping and paid. 

thanks again,

Kevin

[NintendoKD]

Ok, I really hate to waver, but are there any problems reported from tsoe who have plugged the extra hole? "that have done it correctly"  I might just do that if all else fails and I can't find my hydro head in time.  I can tap it no problem and the plug shouldn't be a problem either what grade steel am I looking at for the plug?  I may be able to find a cheaper one thats just as effective and easier to install.  Is the resurfacing really necessary? if I must I will send it off.

[NintendoKD]

You saw this thread right?

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16688.0

I also gotta say again, I think it's a bad idea to use a 1.9 head with 1.5L displacement.  I predict that you'll end up with a very smokey and hard to start engine that gets poor fuel economy.

this is quoted form saurkraut, and I must reiterate, I'm not the least bit worried about difficult cold starts:

saurkraut, that's a bunch of conversion work. Hate to sound stupid, but is your project goal to produce gains in horsepower, torque, fuel economy, lower emissions, or what? (I know; sounds like a newb.)

Don't the 1.6L mechanical heads have a water passage right where you put the aluminum pipe plug? Seems like all coolant flow is critical on our VW diesels, but maybe I'm just missing something basic here.(?)

Won't you also have to use a 1.9L intake manifold, or modify the 1.6L unit?

Interesting work, and nicely done.


J.R.

The 1.9 head has bigger ports, and bigger swirl chambers which should lower my CR to 19:1 or somthing around there.  I have an Excel spread sheet that has CRs for different heads on different motors somewhere, but 19:1 is in the ball park.

I don't like hydralic lifters.

I should be able to pack more air in each stroke.

The lower compression should reduce stress on the rods.

Therefore, I should be able to run a more stupid booste level with more fuel and have less chance of busting anything in the engine.

I suspect I'll lunch another trany next though.

I have been running a K24 at 25 - 30 PSI with some smoke.  Crapped a piece of a turbine blade out the tail pipe once.  I have a k-26 that I plan on grafting its kompressor on to the k24 and get even more air in there.

Yes, I have the 1.9 intake manifold too.

After I finish this monkey business, its back to the 1.5TD program.

I'm just a shareing kind of person.... 

[NintendoKD]

Oh, almost forgot the works cited part

the quote was from this thread provided earlier in this one, thanks, maxfax.

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0

Gentlemen, learning is occoring at a most prodigious level, thanks and accolades are in order.

Thank you,

Kevin

[NintendoKD]

mea culpa, mea culpa.   now I feel sheepish   ok, so I'll have to push start it then no biggie once she warms up i'll be golden right?

[rabbitman]

I would really rather have a turbo 1.6 block "for strength and the 12mm holes" and already setup for hydro lifters, I'll sell this one then or trade.  The easier the better here.  DMAN, and I drove all the way up to Sacremento to get this thing too.  Really good block, has cross hatching still visible and stock bores.  I'll clean it all up before I sell/trade it how much would you say it's worth?  I want to make sure that I get the right one next time "hydro with the bump in between 1&2"  got it...... learning........ exspensive............ now I know why people pay sooo much for college.

Thanks again,

Kevin

Newer NA blocks have 12mm bolts too

[NintendoKD]

The general concensus is that this has never been done before?  no one has tried it for fear of absolute failure?  Boy this really has my name all over it.   I want to make this work, in fact I'm willing to bet it will work wonderfully "cold starts are gonna suck" push start anyone?  either way 30+ psi boost sounds promising.  If all else fails, at the end of the day I can just slap the old 1.6 rot assy. in and still have a perfectly good running engine.  What does that take, what ........ a couple of hours max?

thanks guys,

Kevin

[RabbitJockey]

i dunno that no ones done it because they thought it would fail, i think it just hasn't happened yet, its possible that it has happened tho, theres alot of cool stuff that never gets posted on the internet.  i think the cold start issue would probably be minimal if timing is correct, it might be kind of hard, but i've had ***ty engines before and i could usually get them started one way or another. 

[8v-of-fury]

If anyone can swap out the rotating assembly (from running to running again) in two hours they would be my personal hero.  I would think that if someone was working hard, knew every bolt, had all the right tools and was sticking to it nose to the grindstone, it would be more along the lines of 8+ hours of labor at minimum.

Andrew know's his crap. lol

[NintendoKD]

you are right about the time just exxaggerated just a little couple of hours of our time is like a minute in gassers time.  In your opinion how could I make this work better?  I like to have a can-do attitude I think there is a way would a block warmer help or maybe there is a way, I haven't thought of it, but it doesn't mean that someone else can't, with the right attitude.  Just think of all of the cool ideas that never made it to invention because someone thought that the way they thought about it, it simply wouldn't work.  I am sure that toegther we can figure this out.  The cold starts I can handle, at least until it warms up, then all is well ntil I have to start her again.  Adding an electric heating element to the cooling/ oil system could keep the block warm but other than that I am drawing a blank.  How do the big rigs do it?

Once again, thanks for the input guys you are all an inspiration and helpful,

Kevin

[8v-of-fury]

How do the big rigs do it?

Have adequate compression.  

How cold does it get there in Socal? 70-75f maybe? Will that really cause cold start problems??

[maxfax]

It'd take just as long to swap a rotating assembly on a gasser as it woudl on a diesel..   Fuel system and strength differences aside, when it all comes down to it, an enigne is an engine... Some are just better than others.... 

And air intake heater coupled with the glow plugs *might* get you started..  But I as well think you are going to see some poor economy and alot of smoke..  With this there really wouldn't be much point of a diesel as the most noteworthy perks (economy & longevity) wouldn't be there..   THe other perk of a diesel, the low end torque, probably would be less prevalent as well.  The power isn;t going to be spectacular until the turbo starts to spool.. A properly matched VNT may make help this out though...

With an indirect injection diesel there are limits to how low you can go with static compression, plain and simple..   The larger industrial type engines such as those in tractors and excvators etc that have comp ratios in the 16:1 - 19:1 range are direct injection diesels.. The old Ford IDI 7.3's and GM 6.2 & 6.5 IDI ran about 21:1 compression, whereas the later DI Powerstokes & Duramaxs ran with about 17:1.. The VW TDI's had about 19:1 I think...

Maybe with some injector and pump tweaks, and the proper turbo it could be made to run half decent, but there is a reason that most IDI diesels run compression ratios of around 20:1 and up...

Build it and let us know how it works!!!

[maxfax]

Ahh Libby you beat me to the punch!