Better than propane?

[Dropout]

For those of you who are experimenting with propane injection, I came across something interesting last week.

There are several companies who are selling onboard hydrogen generators to reduce emissions and increase fuel economy for over the road trucks.

www.globaltech.com

My initial impression was that this was nonsense. Take 100 units of diesel fuel, turn it into 30 units of electricity (it's powered by the alternator) and generate enough fuel to replace more than the 100 units of diesel used. The math just doesn't work.

However, the theory is that the small amount of hydrogen generated improves the combustion process and uses all the diesel fuel injected resulting in better fuel economy and no black smoke. This happens because hydrogen has a much faster flame front than diesel. No unburnt fuel, no smoke.

Which got me thinking......

Instead of an onboard generator at $10,000 plus, what about a small bottle like NOx or propane. After all, 10% better economy for the same power is just the flip side of 10% more power for the same fuel. If we can keep pumping in fuel and the hydrogen will let it all burn, there is theoretically lots more power to be had out of our little 1.6 TD's

I am trying to work out how much hydrogen to use. Whatever happens, we don't want to blow the head off the engine.

As part of an R&D program I will probably be testing one of these onboard generators on one of my trucks in the next few months.

Dropout

[fspGTD]

How does pure hydrogen compare to more readily-available compressed natural gas?

Compressed natural gas has a much higher octance rating that propane so should be good in theory for much more added ponies in an IDI VW Diesel than propane (which based on my experimentation, only adds 5-10% power before inducing very heavy amount of unsafe detonation, which in my case took out a head gasket before I could even complete my G-tech acceleration run.)  LPG is just not worth the hassle and additional complexity on an IDI.  My race rules allow it, but I don't run it because of the added complexity, reduced reliability, and only modest power gain.

The reason I haven't experimented with CNG yet is because I haven't found a reasonably sized tank.  The only tanks I've seen are for dedicated 100%-fumigated auto/truck applications, are enormous!  (And I'm sure very heavy.)  The CNG tank needs to withstand working pressures of something like 1000 psi.  It's a lot more pressure than a 150-200'ish psi propane tank needs to hold.  I do have a regulator and ventiri setup I could bolt right on after adapting the CNG fuel supply system, so I could trt it out if we could find a tank...  I'd have to look in my racing rulebook, but I don't think it allows pure hydrogen, unless it's considered CNG (I have a feeling they might be pretty close but not exactly the same, I think CNG has carbon in it's molecules.)

Now that all said, I am doing pretty good and might make a reasonable showing on 100% straight diesel, no alternative fuel (unless maybe I ran biodiesel which I have before, and I've found to be fairly straight swap for conventional diesel, but I got a bad batch with algea contamination and that was the last time I used that.  Loved the way it smelled, though.)

[DVST8R]

jake you could try either, a NOS bottle, a CO2 fire extingusher bottle or any C02 bottle fro that matter, or a scuba bottle. All of them are designed to withstand at least twice the pressure and come in "hatch sized" formatt. Just a thought.

[fspGTD]

jake you could try either, a NOS bottle, a CO2 fire extingusher bottle or any C02 bottle fro that matter, or a scuba bottle. All of them are designed to withstand at least twice the pressure and come in "hatch sized" formatt. Just a thought.

That size would be perfect and light weight...  Here are the rules in my race class I would need to abide by for running CNG fumigation:

"Propane or CNG (compressed natural gas) fuel may be used in any category provided the following conditions are met:
1.  The tank must be located in a safe location on the car, and be firmly and securely mounted.
2.  The tank must conform to federal and local container standards, and have an emergency relief/cut-off valve.
3.  [omitted- doesn't apply to my class]
4.  The entire system must meet local ordinances covering the use and transmission of compressed gas."

I guess I'd have to do more research to see what is required of the tank by feredal (US) container standards for LPG, and verify that those NOX or CO2 tanks were available with relief/cutoff valves.  I like the idea though!

I'd probably lean more towards a CO2 tank, as my competitors would like freak if they were to see an NOX bottle.  I'd say: "Hey just ignore that NOX sticker, it's just got LPG in it"  Their response: "Yeah, right!!!"  It if weren't 100% legal it would totally draw attention.  Actually if I were to win nationals with any kind of fumigation it would totally draw attention, which is why I'd have to make it squeaky-clean legal.  

By the way, anyone want a horizontal-mount lightweight aluminum DOT LPG cylinder currently legal to fill with the latest OPD on it (overfill protection device), about 2.5 gallons capacity and lightweight too, perfect for propane-boosting a TDI?  If so let me know and I'll make you a really good deal.  The horizontal-mount 2.5 gallon aluminum tank is way lighter than a big steel barbeque tank, and fits into an empty spare wheel well or somewhere hatch/trunk-mounted much better.  The size is also just perfect for diesel automobile fumigation application.

[TDIMeister]

On-board hydrogen generation/fumigation *IS* nonsense.  But alas, it's late and I'm tired.  Will expound tomorrow...

[Dropout]

Still waiting....

Dropout

On-board hydrogen generation/fumigation *IS* nonsense.  But alas, it's late and I'm tired.  Will expound tomorrow...

[BlackTieTD]

all i want to know is what happens when you get rear-ended through no fault of your own and something pointy punctures your tank?  :?

hydrogen, propane, nitrous, etc etc its not going to be pretty..