Which NA injectors?

[wolf_walker]

Ran across something I did not know after messing with these for years and an hour of searching still leaves me wanting.

Current franken-VW is a ME code long block in my A1 pickup with an 81-ish pump(for now).
I went to order injectors and there are differing numbers for 81-ish and 85-ish NA motors.
068130201C are stock A1 and seem to come up as NA13x rebuilds.
068130201N are stock A2 and seem to come up as NA14x rebuilds.
Both the rebuilds are listed as non-turbo.

What's the deal here?  The nozzles seem to be the same, they look the same, have the same break pressure.
Some sort of internal refinement on VW/Bosch's part?
I'm going under the assumption that the NA14x is the best bet and have a pricing request in
with my supplier(worldpac).  Am I screwing up?
Thanks..

[Baron VonZeppelin]

I've asked around about this before and it doesn't seem anyone really knows a definite answer on the diffrnt NA application numbers. Or why they are diffrnt, or what is/was the diffrnce.

I've never seen NA 14X. That one is new on me.
But what i have gathered, as reference:
NA 12X is TD with 155 bar.
10X is for NA 1.5
11X is for mechanical NA 1.6
13X is for hydra NA 1.6
14X idunno about yet

If it were me, i'd go with whatever vintage the Inj Pump mates to.
If not that, then the engine parameter.
Can't get hurt much anywhere though i guess, as long as they have 130-135 bar opening.

The best guesses were that there must have been "some" difference in the nozzles back then. As of today - they probly all get rebuilt with the same standard type nozzles. Which would make them all about the same function out of the box.

Probably about as much help as a flashlight with no batteries, but it might prompt other replies.

Where are you sourcing yours and how much ?
I need a set of 13X Bosch Reman'd.
Shopping around - best price has been around 36-37 plus shipping and plus cores.

Up until about 7-8 months ago you could still get 13X NEW for about 37 from eGerman. But no more.

[rs899]

Importec.com (also Worldpac) has Bosch nozzles for $9.16/ea now.  I bought a set months ago and still have them lying around uninstalled- I don't recall what they are actually but if I remember tonight I will see what they sent me.

At this point with these worn engines we have I doubt it really matters as much what they are as long as they aren't worn out.

Rick

WW- you got that poor thing up to 583K miles? Mine's about to turn 400K but its hurtin'

[burn_your_money]

Most of the changes in the nozzle design is related to noise and emmisions from what I have gathered.

[wolf_walker]

Thanks for the info guys, that jives with what I've come across, and I'm betting they are all about the same
with the exception of pop pressure.  I know the nozzles are cheap and the same, I don't have a quick place I trust to pop them though so I just coughed up for a set.  I ordered the NA14X since they came up for the ME code NA hyd head 1.6.  It's tired but decent running so
it'll probly be alright.  I have an early 1.6 mech head pump on there but will likely have to get the ME pump resealed and stick it on there later.  This one has been off the road since before ULSD, isn't leaking after an hour of running, but it probly will.

I think they got me for $36 a pop on the remans, I tried to weasel em some but apparently there is little to no
markup on them from Bosch.  Go figure.

rs899, I made 599K and change, and it still ran pretty well, damn head gasket got to where it had a little pinprick squirt of oil coming out
of it, I pulled the head years ago and never got around to putting it back together.  I bought this a2 jetta showing 5xx on the odometer
but I'm assuming the engine has been replaced.  I mucked around and got it running decent and it wasn't overheating or smoking much, so I stuck it in and we'll see how it goes.  I have several core motors and a couple of heads laying around from back in my diesel days, I'd like to actually build one of these things from the block up eventually.  Just bought a 98% rust free 200K 82 rabbit last weekend too!


I still want a diesel Scirocco, maybe by next summer.

[wolf_walker]

Well I ended up with two reman NA14X or MDC685's or 0432217164090 depending on where you look on the box.
And two seemingly brand new NA14X or 0432217164-770 depending on where you look.
I'd rather they all match but I got the new one's for the same price as the remans, I guess it's a draw.
We'll see how it runs in a few weeks.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Who are you buying from ?

In N.Carolina ?

hook a fellow wolfpack'r up man

[wolf_walker]

PM me, I think they are out of the reman NA14x's though, the new ones listed for 80 or so I think.
The NA13X remans I think it was are NA too though.

[jseeley]

Bringing up this thread from the past; Trying to determine which injectors should be in my engine. Its an 85 Golf NA, and its my understanding that this is not a hydraulic head, that 86 was the transition hydraulic.

From what wolf_walker posted:

But what i have gathered, as reference:
NA 12X is TD with 155 bar.
10X is for NA 1.5
11X is for mechanical NA 1.6
13X is for hydra NA 1.6
14X idunno about yet

Does that mean I should have NA11X injectors? It seems most people are using NA13X & NA14X's in all their NA rebuilds. I know the difference between all the NA injectors seems like a unknown from most of the threads I have read.  Thanks for any and all help.
 

[wolf_walker]

I'm still puzzled over this issue and there is little help to be found other than repeating of conventional wisdom.

After digging up ETKA again, the factory parts catalog, I have verified there is a transition point for the VW injector
part number in the early A2's, presumably where there was a pump change.
My hastily typed notes form awhile ago say VW PN 068130201ex is listed both for the early 1.6L Rabbit
AND for the 85 (early A2) Jetta, I think it's up to a given engine number or something.  068130201N is listed from there on
out for the NA 1.6L.  Take this for what it's worth, it's hard to reliably cross those numbers to Bosch current numbers, but
worldpac says the later number is NA14X and the earlier is NA13X.  I ended up buying NA14X since they were cheaper and
figured they'd be the same for a NA motor, but I was running a 107AG pump on a later ME motor.  I had some oddness going on,
namely ungodly clattering when cold, few other things.  I bought a set of NA13X and it fixed the cold clatter (without touching
pump timing).  This isn't conclusive and I still have some oddness I think is from my very high mileage pump, but for the money I'd
err on the safe side and get the right number for a given motor/pump.  Course, most rebuilders don't differentiate between
early and late NA, just NA or Turbo, so either Bosch/VW did something silly back in the day or they know something most
other people don't.  Maybe it was an inconsiquential change, I don't know.  I RMA'd the first set of NA14X and sold them to a fellow
here with an A2 and they are just fine for him.  Wish this was more helpful, but it's all I got on the topic pretty much.

   

[motomike33y]

In another thread, I'd talked about some NA10 and NA11 that I'd gotten for my 91 1.6 NA.  I finally got a pop tester and could determine the difference between my std jetta-about 1960 psi, the NA10-about 2100, and the NA11-about 2300.  I finally used the new nozzles from the NA11 and rebuilt my jetta.  No noticeable difference except springs/seat weren't interchangeable between a couple of them.  Now starts and runs ok when I finally changed the IP timing.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Just to add even more confusions, when Bosch brought out the 14X designation about a year ago - they shuffled the whole board.

11X is now designated as TD.
12X seems to be an unused identity now.

Seems that was what i discovered a while back when comparing offerings from Autohaus AZ, eGerman, PartsGeek, etc...

They (Bosch) are dropping a lot of reman'd offerings - and offering only new replacement$ ($$$) for most NA's. Its phasing in through the vendors - and almost all reflect this now.

Its gotten pretty funky. Should make buying old stock remand's pretty complicated in some applications unless they are stamped with bar pressures on them. No more X rule of thumb i guess.

As example:

... are your 11X's being offered a VERIFIED 130 bar - or 155 bar ?
....are they old stock or new stock ?
....are they a matched set - or old stock and new stock mixed ?

It could get itchy scratchy and hairy now

ughh

[wolf_walker]

I have seen some of those inconsistency as well.
Scary ain't it.