Hard Starting after glow plug change

[Rabbit TD]

I noticed the other day when i was about 40 degrees one morning the Rabbit was hard to start.  So today I thought I better check the glow plugs, they are Champions and I had one good one out of four.  I have the old N/A engine on the floor and I knew all it's plugs were good and had been running them for 4 years till I put the T/D in last winter.  At that time I tested the Champions that were in the original T/D head and they were good then and I have been using them since January but evidently 3 died. I tested the old Bosch ones and they all tested 1.6 OHM's and lit up red in about 10 seconds testing indiviualy and the relay works and I have power at the bus bar and all is good as far as the plugs are concerned.  I removed the injector lines and 1 return line to change the plugs and bled the lines at the unions before I started it and it started like it should.  The problem is that it cranks a long time now even when warm before it starts even when the glow plugs are not even used like 10 min. after I shut it off.  Now what the hell is causing that now?  I have no fuel leaks at the unions, delivery valves or return lines and the return line hoses are only 9 mo. old and I only unhooked one of them to get the injector lines off.  It runs fine after it starts but it has to crank for like about 6-7 seconds now to start and before it was just a bump of the key when warm.  Did the fresh plugs change my compression ratio by having no carbon or soot on them,  , I don't think so either.  It's obviously fuel related but where with no visable leaks showing.  The replacement Bosch ones have the same length probe on the end which if there was a big difference it could technicaly cause a compression change but that ain't happening and they are antiseized and tight, not leaking compression.  Do you all have any suggestions,  I'm getting to the point on this thing that I'm almost afraid to add air to the tires causing them to get out of balance or something stupid like that

[Rabbit TD]

Speaking about glow plugs what is the difference between a  regular Bosch plug and the Duratherm's and where can you get them.  Do they last very long and are they fast or slow, do they require their own special relay

[maxfax]

AFIK the difference between the regulars and the duratherms is that the duratherms have an integeral thermastat like doohikey..  It keeps them from getting too hot and burning up..  I'm guessing they have a higher end heating element in them as well..    They are fast glow but I've used em with a slow glow relay...

My usual supplier for them is out of business now, but I think Giles stocks them..  Most other places seem to only hve the regular ole bosch I've found..

[Vincent Waldon]

Think of them as universal... they will work fast/slow/AAZ afterglow.  Most of the Worldpac dealers sell 'em as well... for example:

http://www.autopartsway.com/autoparts2/index.cfm?fetch=part~ID=1992~Volkswagen~Jetta%20Diesel%20Base%201.6%20L4~240808

[Baron VonZeppelin]

You have made the car horny fingering and fiddling it.
Happens all the time with VW's.

I always try to look my worst and wear dirty clothes when I work on one.

Now it probably wants its injectors lapped or something.
Maybe a fuel filter too.

I have found that religious use of PowerService Diesel Kleen in the grey jug keeps mine content without any speriodic hot flash horny symptoms.

Giles does have the Bosch Duraterms and is very fair on the price.
Like Max said - i think most vendors are still trying to clear the shelves of the old style Bosch. Thats about all i could source everywhere i tried.

[mystery3]

I got a set of duratherms that I need to install tomorrow from autohausaz $90 something for the kit with relay. Seemed like a fair price to me.

[Rabbit TD]

I got a set of duratherms that I need to install tomorrow from autohausaz $90 something for the kit with relay. Seemed like a fair price to me.

I just looked at their website this morning doing a search for them and they have them individualy for $9.22 each (P/N 80010} and the fast relay for $24 by itself and they have the kit for $92 and free shipping for orders over $50. The damn kit is about $30 more for some reason.  I've looked at other sites and 80010 is the number for the duratherms everywhere from what I've seen.  I'm gonna order them inividualy tomorrow and the relay.  Evidently they are on sale individualy from their ad but you would think they would reduce the kit price accordingly too.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

That sorta sounds a bit too cheap for a Duraterm.
Sounds more like standard Bosch price ?

Any confirmation on that $9.22 being a Duraterm ?

They are around 13.20 CAD at Giles.

[mystery3]

I got a set of duratherms that I need to install tomorrow from autohausaz $90 something for the kit with relay. Seemed like a fair price to me.

I just looked at their website this morning doing a search for them and they have them individualy for $9.22 each (P/N 80010} and the fast relay for $24 by itself and they have the kit for $92 and free shipping for orders over $50. The damn kit is about $30 more for some reason.  I've looked at other sites and 80010 is the number for the duratherms everywhere from what I've seen.  I'm gonna order them inividualy tomorrow and the relay.  Evidently they are on sale individualy from their ad but you would think they would reduce the kit price accordingly too.

Yeah well, I bought the kit a couple weeks back and that would be just my luck.

[burnt_servo]

i've been getting  duratherm's from lordco , and with the discount through  the bodyshop they are around 45.00 for a set of 4 after taxes .

[Rabbit on Roids]

whats so great about dura therms? ive got bosch's in my rides and have never had a problem, except for the time all 4 of my plugs burnt out on the same day, but they were old and came in the car.

[arb]

The problem is that it cranks a long time now even when warm before it starts even when the glow plugs are not even used like 10 min. after I shut it off.  Now what the hell is causing that now?  

Have you solved your problems starting? Sounds like you still have some air bubbles in the lines. They will clear with running for a while. Also, I'd pimp your GP so you have control over when and if they light :-)  I have a light on my dash showing me when they get juice.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

RoR, the DuraTerm is made by Bosch.
Its the new design, next step up in Gplug technology.

Supposed to be even longer lasting (hence name).
And universal as in will work with fast or slow relays.
Have built in thermal protection so they won't let themselves get fried by staying on too long/continually - in event of a malfunction in the Gplug system.

Especially good for guys running manual Gplug systems.

Not that the Bosch's that have been working great in these cars for around 30 years are no good now. Just that these are perhaps more favorable if someone is buying a new set.

I notice now, that in Vince's link they are under $10 each also.

mm  hmm............

[Baron VonZeppelin]

I got a set of duratherms that I need to install tomorrow from autohausaz ........

Mystery3, what did the boxes look like and what was part number on them ? As in, did packaging say DuraTerm ?

And has 80010 # been superceded or still # 80010 ?

[Rabbit TD]

That sorta sounds a bit too cheap for a Duraterm.
Sounds more like standard Bosch price ?

Any confirmation on that $9.22 being a Duraterm ?

They are around 13.20 CAD at Giles.

I looked at a lot of ads on the net and it seems like everybody is getting 9 somethig for them now and  show 80010 being the number for the IDI's.  I just stumbled into Autohaus and saw the kit and individual price and thought the same thing about them being something else instead but I asked when I ordered tonight and he said 80010 is a Duratherm number.  From what I'm reading I don't think Bosch maakes the other styles anymore either.  Some places have the Duratherms listed cheaper than the older styles also.  Are they any better, I have no idea, but I know the Bosch slow glows in my old N/A were in 3 or 4 different heads on that motor and they always worked fine and never burned out.  The T/D engine I built had 4 Champions in it's original head that were fine so I just used them instead of pulling the others from the N/A but this weekend I checked and 3 were dead.