Oooh my aching, er, leaking head!

[Jettage1]

Well, it seems my problems run in threes, so here's the third.  It appears my head gasket (92 ECO Diesel) is starting to leak coolant on the front side.  Just enough to leave a puddle on the block. 

1.  Anybody have experience with how long it takes for this sort of leak to be a serious issue (assuming I watch my coolant level & my dipstick too)?

2.  My head gasket has three holes on the front tab - I assume I'd replace like with like?

3.  Would I be wise in replacing headbolts with ARP studs when I do the gasket?  If so, can someone link to pertinent part numbers or sources for them & a good gasket?  (Or if there's a good thread on this that I missed, please do enlighten me!)

Thanks all!

[burn_your_money]

Depends if you go poking at it. I'd say that there is a good chance your head is warped. They always seem to warp there. (sorry)

Since there are 3 holes I'd be a bit worried since it's the "lazy headgasket" for people who don't want to measure piston protrusion. Obviously it will run with a three hole so if you are pressed for time a three hole would do. Who knows, it might even need a 3 hole

If you are running under 15 lbs I'd say headstuds would be a waste of money.

[Jettage1]

Thanks Tyler...

So, whether I do the work, or have it done, it would be important to (a) check the head surface to see if it's true (can they be milled if not?) and (b) measure piston protrusion & select the right gasket.  I don't know if the head's ever been off before - I've only had it a year +.  I was thinking about playing with boost, but don't know if I want to really push it on a 210K+ mile engine...

[smoken u]

lol i wouldnt reccomend this to anyone i was a bit crazy my self when i did this i will admit my vw has 467,00 kms on it leaks out the front of the head gasket area quite a bit, has the fuel cranked and the boost at about absolute max, i cant really tell what it is, becasue it buries my 25 psi guage to the stopper, i drove the car with the leaking headgastek for 2 years befor doing the mods, then another 6 months with the mods, the only reason i stopped driving it is because i bought a truck. still runs and drives, no problem no starting issues nothing lol really a true testament to how tought these little cars are lol.

[maxfax]

Truely luck of the draw..   I've had several of my N/A's run for ages with coolant and oil sprewing forth from teh HG...  And one made it about 2 weeks..

These heads can be resurfaced...  There's two different routes to this, pending on how badly it's warped.  One is to have the head surfaced flat, then have the cam journels line bored so that they are in line..   THe other is to have the head striaghtened so that the cam journels are in line, then have the surface skimmed a bit.. BOth methods seem to be fine...

Definietly measure that piston protrusion..   About 80% of these I've gotten in here did actually require a 3 notch gasket, but never hurts to check...

210K???   That's still a baby!!! 

[Jettage1]

Thanks everyone for your advice!

Someone suggested that one might have luck retorquing the existing head bolts...  I assume this actually would mean simply tightening them a bit further, not loosening and retightening...

Anyone care to opine as to (a) whether this is advisable, and (b) how much tighter - 5-10 ft. lbs. or

If it's a dumb idea I'll try the one-by-one stud replacement idea.  Does one install studs via a "double nut" tightening, or do you just thread 'em in by hand 'till snug and then torque down the single nut on top?

[53 willys]

Thanks everyone for your advice!

Someone suggested that one might have luck retorquing the existing head bolts...  I assume this actually would mean simply tightening them a bit further, not loosening and retightening...

Anyone care to opine as to (a) whether this is advisable, and (b) how much tighter - 5-10 ft. lbs. or

If it's a dumb idea I'll try the one-by-one stud replacement idea.  Does one install studs via a "double nut" tightening, or do you just thread 'em in by hand 'till snug and then torque down the single nut on top?

on the retorquing..you can try if it works great if not...I tried it on mine and it was too late didnt reseal..mine was a fiber gasket.
 
I went hand tight on my arp's and then tightened them from there with just the nut on top and TQ wrench..

[Rabbit TD]

Thanks everyone for your advice!

Someone suggested that one might have luck retorquing the existing head bolts...  I assume this actually would mean simply tightening them a bit further, not loosening and retightening...

Anyone care to opine as to (a) whether this is advisable, and (b) how much tighter - 5-10 ft. lbs. or

If it's a dumb idea I'll try the one-by-one stud replacement idea.  Does one install studs via a "double nut" tightening, or do you just thread 'em in by hand 'till snug and then torque down the single nut on top?

That's one of the big problems with the 12 m/m stretch type head bolts, you realy have no idea what the final torque is on them after the extra turns are added during the initial retorque during their instalation so you don't really know where to put them pulling them just a little tighter,  and are they actualy getting tighter or just stretching.  I have had head gaskets leak just like you are having with a newly resurfaced head and block and trying to be as meticulous as a surgeon putting them on and had them leak.  Those were the 11 m/m bolts which were the non-stretch style and I just backed them off about 1/4 turn and torqued them 10-15 lbs more than what they were initialy one bolt at a time following the torque sequence chart but all in one shot, not the 3 steps shown and both those engines never leaked after that.  The big chance you take doing this especialy on the 11's is they don't go in the block very far to begin with and you can easily crack the block where the bolt goes in.  Hell they crack even with standard torque after some miles at times.  That's why they went to the 12 m/m bolts but they are the stretch type, they go in deeper but have their own set of problems and are only recomended to be used once.  I've torqued a good many of these heads and studs are the only way to go.  I wish I'd have known about them years ago.  They are very smooth torquing them with none of the creaking and popping and extra turns and all that crap.  If it leaks at 80 lbs. with them then just go to 90, one at a time.  But the moral to the story is with the studs you will live happily ever after or at least till the first transmission failure we all have too it seems

[smutts]

you will live happily ever after or at least till the first transmission failure we all have too it seems Roll Eyes

Dear engineer, build it up to a specification, not down to a price!

Chuck a bottle of Radseal at it, it will delay the inevitable for anything from a week to five years, and make a bigger bang when it does finally let go.